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Hate, hate and more hate

That was the hockey world yesterday. 

Detroit Red Wings forward Pavel Datsyuk was in his home country of Russia where the highly controversial anti-gay law has been making headlines at least once a day when he was asked about his take on it.

Now from what I have read online no one that is bashing or standing up for Datsyuk was actually there in Russia.  I think many, especially the further west in North America we go, were probably still asleep when the question was asked – that didn’t stop anyone from spreading out venom.

At this point every mainstream media, established bloggers and recreational tweeter has expressed their outrage over Datsyuk citing his religion as his answer to a politically driven question.

He’s Orthodox.  That’s great.  Has anyone taken a second to look at the situation he is in?  Here he is accepting an award, there is speculation that he could be Team Russia’s captain for ice hockey, in the Winter Olympics, which is being hosted…. IN RUSSIA. 

Pavel Datsyuk’s job is to be a professional hockey player: no more, no less.

Why would a public figure from a country that is threatening to jail athletes and visitors to the Olympics for showing they support gay rights be in that country and start speaking against it?  Sure he could have.  Sure that would have made people feel warm and tingly inside that Mr. Pavel Datsyuk, Mr. Lady Byng, himself took a stand for the millions he doesn’t know.

Now back to reality.  It’s not his job.  He is not a politician, he isn’t a career protester, he is not a lobbyist.  His job is to play ice hockey, with an incredible amount of talent (be it God given or due to hard work and dedication is a debate for another day).

I have two daughters and I could honestly care less if one is straight and one is gay, or both straight, or both gay.  They are my daughters and I love them for who they are.  If one is straight and the other gay why should their rights be different?  They shouldn’t.

The internet and social media age has made the global community a smaller place; however, it is important to remember that we all come from different cultures, societies, and have different experiences.

Yesterday’s experience of reading on Twitter that just because someone that is straight has friends that are gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender, etc. and wants them to share the same equal rights doesn’t mean that person isn’t a homophobe themselves.  Um, yeah, okay then.  I am sure the homophobic society in mass is pretending to be straight allies for equal rights to get into the secret underground scene right?  Back to my daughters – by the precedent set yesterday that would mean that because I am not a lesbian myself I can’t want equal rights for the two of them because I am in fact straight? I call bullshit. 

Fighting hate with more hate is not only keeping the endless cycle going it is causing it to spin out of control. 

Maybe one day people will learn to tolerate, and then grow to accept that not everyone is the same.  Maybe one day we will stop turning our world into 1984 and the thought police.

Maybe someday people can actually discuss differences with one another and not launch into a defensive fight or flight state.

It is okay to be different and a person should be able to discuss their differences without fear of backlash from, society, the government, the IOC and everyone on the planet that feels entitled because they have a Twitter account.

Filed in: NHL Teams, Detroit Red Wings, Non-NHL Hockey, International Hockey, | KK Hockey | Permalink
  Tags: pavel+datsyuk, team+russia

Comments

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Does anyone honestly believe that Russia would arrest and jail Datsyuk for speaking out against the new law?
However, he does have a right to not take a position publicly so anyone throwing venom his way for that is way off base.

Posted by grndlprm on 08/23/13 at 10:56 AM ET

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This issue isn’t about religion, it is about opposing oppression. There is a difference between saying you don’t support gay marriage and saying that gays should be oppressed. EVERYONE should oppose oppression, even when it is against people with which you disagree. Datsyuk is getting the reaction that he should for his gutless response to the question on gay persecution in Russia.

Posted by timbits on 08/23/13 at 11:06 AM ET

Guilherme's avatar

Datsyuk is getting the reaction that he should for his gutless response to the question on gay persecution in Russia.

So Datsyuk is being oppressed for not saying gays should be oppressed.

EVERYONE should oppose oppression, even when it is against people with which you disagree

Hmm…

Posted by Guilherme from Brazsil on 08/23/13 at 11:11 AM ET

SnLO's avatar

Now back to reality.  It’s not his job.  He is not a politician, he isn’t a career protester, he is not a lobbyist.  His job is to play ice hockey,

Exactly.

Nice entry.

Posted by SnLO from the sub great-white north on 08/23/13 at 11:13 AM ET

mrfluffy's avatar

Nice entry for sure. Thanks for keeping a realistic perspective.

Posted by mrfluffy from A wide spot on I-90 in Montana on 08/23/13 at 11:15 AM ET

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So Datsyuk is being oppressed for not saying gays should be oppressed.

How is Datsyuk being oppressed? Condemning someones statement is not oppression. Oppression is when the state and society, deny you basic human rights, throw you in prison, beat and torture you.  Would you support someone who says, “my religion says that it is ok to enslave blacks”?  Would you support someone who says ” my religion says it is ok to kill Jews”?  The issue in Russia is no different. To say that Datsyuk is oppressed, because people speak out about his stupidity, is not oppression!

Posted by timbits on 08/23/13 at 11:16 AM ET

Guilherme's avatar

Would you support someone who says ” my religion says it is ok to kill Jews”?
He didn’t say that. He told us what his religion is (which happens to be the religion for most Russians, so it shouldn’t shock anyone).

Posted by Guilherme from Brazsil on 08/23/13 at 11:19 AM ET

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Why would a public figure from a country that is threatening to jail athletes and visitors to the Olympics for showing they support gay rights be in that country and start speaking against it?  Sure he could have.  Sure that would have made people feel warm and tingly inside that Mr. Pavel Datsyuk, Mr. Lady Byng, himself took a stand for the millions he doesn’t know.

Let’s just take you statement and go back in time to 1936 and Nazi Germany and the Olympics in Berlin.  How does your statement sound after history showed what happened to the Jews.  Would you say, I understand why no one spoke up?  Would you say, you can’t blame someone for being weak in that moment? If sports figures and others don’t speak up, when there is no risk to themselves personally, then the reality is that no one speaks up at all.

Posted by timbits on 08/23/13 at 11:30 AM ET

mrfluffy's avatar

Oi vey.

Nazi reference already?

J.J.!

Posted by mrfluffy from A wide spot on I-90 in Montana on 08/23/13 at 11:34 AM ET

MoreShoot's avatar

He didn’t say that.

Yes he did, he just let you read between the lines (in very typical Datsyuk fashion).

 

Posted by MoreShoot on 08/23/13 at 11:36 AM ET

Guilherme's avatar

Nazis already?

Posted by Guilherme from Brazsil on 08/23/13 at 11:36 AM ET

Guilherme's avatar

Yes he did,

“I’m an Orthodox”.

Posted by Guilherme from Brazsil on 08/23/13 at 11:37 AM ET

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Nazi reference already?

YUP, Nazi Germany outlawed homosexuals and gassed them in the concentration camps too. Sending gays to Siberia, to concentration camps, sounds like the same thing to me. If you think Russia doesn’t still have concentration camps in Siberia you are a fool.

Posted by timbits on 08/23/13 at 11:41 AM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

Let’s just take you statement and go back in time to 1936 and Nazi Germany and the Olympics in Berlin.

You mean how like Luz Long was publicly photographed smiling and cavorting with and being friendly to Jesse Owens and then WWII never happened because that shiny feel good tingly moment saved 40 million lives?

You feel very strongly about this. Clearly you’re on the wrong side of the ocean talking about it.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 08/23/13 at 11:42 AM ET

Guilherme's avatar

Datsyuk’s answer was religious. From a religious stance, from the Church’s website:

The position of the Orthodox Church toward homosexual acts has been expressed by synodicals, canons and patristic pronouncements from the very first centuries of Orthodox ecclesiastical life. In them, the Orthodox Church condemns unreservedly all expressions of personal sexual experience which prove contrary to the definite and unalterable function ascribed to sex by God’s ordinance and expressed in man’s experience as a law of nature. The Orthodox Church believes that homosexual behavior is a sin.

The religious stance is that it’s a sin. The religious stance does not say “lock them up”. Maybe the Church took a political stance on the issue, it does not mean Datsyuk participates on that stance.

My family is Catholic and is ashamed of the Inquisition, and from what I know everyone wears condoms.

Posted by Guilherme from Brazsil on 08/23/13 at 11:45 AM ET

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You feel very strongly about this. Clearly you’re on the wrong side of the ocean talking about it.

Yeah I do, and like the rest of the pacifist in the US in the 1930’s, you have the responsibilty for not speaking up when something could be done. I am glad you can look back at history and smugly say that speaking out against oppression was a waste of time.

Posted by timbits on 08/23/13 at 11:48 AM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

you have the responsibilty for not speaking up when something could be done. I am glad you can look back at history and smugly say that speaking out against oppression was a waste of time.

You’re not speaking up. Nobody in Russia is hearing you, nor are any policymakers in your own country.  You’re in a safe bubble where you don’t matter so it’s easy for you to say what everybody else should or shouldn’t do because you saying it means zero consequence to you.

If you want to truly speak up and have the ground to stand on about anybody else’s responsibility to do so, then get your ass in gear and actually make a difference instead of just making noise.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 08/23/13 at 12:02 PM ET

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If you want to truly speak up and have the ground to stand on about anybody else’s responsibility to do so, then get your ass in gear and actually make a difference instead of just making noise

You have no idea what I do and don’t do. But, I won’t defer to your desire that I be quiet, because you want it to go away.

Posted by timbits on 08/23/13 at 12:08 PM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

You have no idea what I do and don’t do. But, I won’t defer to your desire that I be quiet, because you want it to go away.

[waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaank]

Nobody has to give a shit what you claim to do or don’t do. Do it or don’t do it, but all you’re doing is talking about it.

And hope off the cross, buddy. I didn’t tell you to be quiet. I said all you’re doing is making noise. You want to buzz like some sort of hypocritical bee, then by goodness I’m glad we’re in a country that lets you do it, because otherwise how would we all get to find out what an insufferable dickhole you are?

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 08/23/13 at 12:21 PM ET

Primis's avatar

You’re not speaking up. Nobody in Russia is hearing you, nor are any policymakers in your own country.  You’re in a safe bubble where you don’t matter so it’s easy for you to say what everybody else should or shouldn’t do because you saying it means zero consequence to you.

This is the 100% crux of the situation.

Not a single one of the people “taking a hardline stand” online yesterday are going to go to Sochi and take an actual stand.  Or even leave their chair period.

A designated leader may tell his men to go over the top of the trench and charge as he remains in it.
Leadership though is climbing up and screaming at your men to follow you in the charge, asking them if they want to live forever.

A lot of people sat in their trenches yesterday and yelled at others for not going over the top, even as they sat and yelled about how important and necessary it was to do so.

Posted by Primis on 08/23/13 at 12:26 PM ET

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I guess I’m in the minority but I don’t give a damn about athlete’s views on politics or religion on anything.  In fact, I wish they were never asked, most of the time they are not polished enough to answer and then are subject to the inevitable fallout.  That same attitude goes towards celebrities as well.  I thought it was out of bounds for him to even be asked that question, Datsyuk does not make the laws in Russia, he is a hockey player who will represent his country, and he should not be asked his opinion on things are have nothing to do with hockey.

Posted by bababooey on 08/23/13 at 01:04 PM ET

mrfluffy's avatar

Posted by bababooey on 08/23/13 at 01:04 PM ET

I doubt you’re in the minority.

Posted by mrfluffy from A wide spot on I-90 in Montana on 08/23/13 at 01:13 PM ET

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He didn’t say that. He told us what his religion is

No he didn’t.  He used his religion as his answer.  Any quick google will tell you how the religion feels about homosexuality.

The religious stance does not say “lock them up”.

No, the religious stance says they aren’t allowed to participate in anything to do with that religion.

Simply because they are gay.

My family is Catholic and is ashamed of the Inquisition

Great, except that if people asked someone in your family how they felt about the inquistion would they say “well, I’ Catholic, that should tell you”?  Or, if they’re ashamed of the inquisition would they say “I’m ashamed of it” or “Even though I’m Catholic, I’m ashamed of it”?

He said A LOT in the way he answered the question.  He didn’t waffle or dodge, he didn’t give a “no comment”, he told us that his answer can be found in his religion.

If someone says “Is Jesus your lord and savior” and you say “well, I’m Jewish, so that should tell you”, that isn’t dodging the question, that is an answer.

and he should not be asked his opinion on things are have nothing to do with hockey.

Why not?

Posted by Garth on 08/23/13 at 01:17 PM ET

Guilherme's avatar

No he didn’t.  He used his religion as his answer.  Any quick google will tell you how the religion feels about homosexuality.

And I googled, and what they say it’s taht homossexualism is a sin. Not a crime, a sin.

No, the religious stance says they aren’t allowed to participate in anything to do with that religion.

Simply because they are gay.

It’s their religion, let they do what they want about it.

He said A LOT in the way he answered the question.  He didn’t waffle or dodge, he didn’t give a “no comment”, he told us that his answer can be found in his religion.

Exactly, the answer is in his religion, no reason to give a political tone to his comment, what he did was specifically running away from a political conversation.

Posted by Guilherme from Brazsil on 08/23/13 at 01:23 PM ET

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and he should not be asked his opinion on things are have nothing to do with hockey.


Why not?

For the same reason I don’t care what Kim Kardashian’s views are on anything, it just does not matter to me.  Why I don’t care what celebrities or athlete’s views are on politics or cultural issues.  I wish more people took the Michael Jordan stance, in 1994 Michael Jordan was asked why he wouldn’t become more political and his response was something like “Republicans buy NIKE shoes also”. When Pavel Datsyuk books an appearance on “Meet The Press” or is running for office, I will care what he thinks about cultural issues, until then, all I care about are his views on hockey and the team I love, the Red Wings.

Posted by bababooey on 08/23/13 at 01:51 PM ET

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He’s paid to pay hockey, not become a poster boy for Gay Rights.

Posted by bababooey on 08/23/13 at 01:51 PM ET

Red Winger's avatar

EVERYONE should oppose oppression, even when it is against people with which you disagree

I take back the ill-will I’ve held towards Stalin for years.

Posted by Red Winger from Sault Ste Marie on 08/23/13 at 02:52 PM ET

awould's avatar

can’t we all just get along? what’s so funny about peace love and understanding? life is like a box of chocolates. don’t let yer dick run yer life. you can’t handle the truth. turn on, tune in, drop out. how can i miss you if you never leave?

wait, what’s the topic again? oh yeah, screaming at strangers in relative anonymity.

KK is for hockey talk. let’s leave the rest of the internet out of it.

Posted by awould on 08/23/13 at 04:09 PM ET

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You’re a woman? tongue wink

Oh yeah, and this whole situation is nonsense. Lets make rules about how a person has to feel inside?!?

My qualifier’s;
I’m….
I’m not….
I know someone who….

That just about sums it up for me.

Posted by Guest613 on 08/23/13 at 04:45 PM ET

Gumby's avatar

It sure seems that Datsyuk is being excoriated for something that he said, without directly speaking for or against it.  So many are so disappointed with him because he didn’t give the answer that the western media was looking for.  He didn’t have a chance, even with the neutral answer that he gave.  No matter what happens, he’s going to upset somebody.  The media thrives on controversy.  I happen to agree with Herm’s argument.  He cited religious beliefs, that’s all.  In his religion, any kind of sex outside of marriage is a sin.  Should that mean that everyone that isn’t married should take issue with him too?  I was more taken aback when one writer suggested Nazism.  Do you really think that he supports Nazi Germany or even Soviet Russia?  I seriously doubt it.

Posted by Gumby from the city with more ruins than Rome on 08/23/13 at 06:41 PM ET

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Paul Kukla founded Kukla’s Korner in 2005 and the site has since become the must-read site on the ‘net for all the latest happenings around the NHL.

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