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Future Hockey Hall Of Fame Inductees

Neil Greenberg at ESPN Insider discusses the chances of active NHL players making the HHOF.

It is a paid subscription article so I am listing his choices which may lead to some discussion from you.

The Locks

The only thing separating these players from enshrinement is retirement.

Jaromir Jagr, Teemu Selanne, Martin Brodeur, Jarome Iginla, Chris Pronger, Tim Thomas

Get the plaque ready -- just in case

Their résumés aren't flawless, but enshrinement still seems certain.

Daniel Alfredsson, Marian Hossa, Zdeno Chara, Pavel Datsyuk, Joe Thornton

Call me, maybe

If their careers continue at, or close to, their current pace, they'll gain entry into the Hall.

Jonathan Toews, Alex Ovechkin, Sidney Crosby, Shea Weber, Henrik Lundqvist, Steven Stamkos, Henrik Sedin, Daniel Sedin

Filed in: NHL Talk, | KK Hockey | Permalink
  Tags: hockey+hall+of+fame

Comments

PuckStopsHere's avatar

Martin St Louis not mentioned is an oversight.

Posted by PuckStopsHere on 11/12/12 at 04:11 PM ET

mrfluffy's avatar

Datsyuk is a lock. Sorry, Pronger and Thomas are locks…Datsyuk definitely is in. Thornton should not be in given his current resume. Weber is pushing it as well.

No Osgood…again.

Agree with PSH- St Louis should be all but a lock.

As Wings fan I’d whine about Zetterberg not being mentioned…but he’s not done enough yet in my eyes.

Posted by mrfluffy from A wide spot on I-90 in Montana on 11/12/12 at 05:13 PM ET

PuckStopsHere's avatar

Mr Fluffy

Your picks seem a bit inconsistent.  You say Pavel Datsyuk is definitely in and Joe Thornton isn’t. Thornton has more career assists than Datsyuk has career points. Thornton has won a Hart Trophy and Datsyuk hasn’t.  Its hard not to think your opinions are colored more by team affiliation than by fact.

Posted by PuckStopsHere on 11/12/12 at 06:34 PM ET

mrfluffy's avatar

Joe Thornton has won individual awards yes, but what has Joe Thornton done when it comes to elevating his team? What has Joe Thornton done in the playoffs? Has Joe Thornton ever carried his team to the championship?

Heh…of course, I’m not sure Datsyuk has, either. In my colored opinion, 2008 was more Zetterberg then Datsyuk.

Posted by mrfluffy from A wide spot on I-90 in Montana on 11/12/12 at 06:53 PM ET

PuckStopsHere's avatar

For the large part a single player elevating a team is a myth.  It doesn’t happen.  Teams win as teams and we give undue credit to individual players for it and other teams dont win and we withhold credit for undue reasons to those players. 

Your anti-Thornton argument is essentially - he hasn’t won a Stanley Cup.  My answer is so what?  He is a good enough player to make the Hockey Hall of Fame.  He has certainly done significantly more than those you already called locks.

Posted by PuckStopsHere on 11/12/12 at 06:57 PM ET

Avatar

Thornton has more career assists than Datsyuk has career points.

That’s hardly a fair comparison since Thornton has played for 15 years to Datsyuk’s 10.  If they had played a similar number of seasons and had that kind of separation you might have a point.  (If you take Dastyuk’s points per game and give him as many games as Thornton, there’s only 22 points difference, for example)

Other than that, I pretty much agree with what you said.  I think the “no Stanley Cups” is a BS argument.  Hockey is as much of a team sport as any and it’s unfair to take credit away from someone because he didn’t play on a championship worthy team.

 

Posted by Garth on 11/12/12 at 10:52 PM ET

PuckStopsHere's avatar

When we discuss career achievements it makes a lot of sense to discuss career totals and not per game ones.  The Hall of Fame is a career achievement.

Posted by PuckStopsHere on 11/13/12 at 01:14 AM ET

Avatar

Posted by PuckStopsHere on 11/13/12 at 12:14 AM ET

But we’re not discussing career achievements.  Unless I missed something neither Thornton nor Datsyuk has retired, therefore neither of their careers is over, therefore we can’t compare career totals between two guys at different points in their careers.

Yes, Thornton has 360 more points than Datsyuk, but he’s also played 345 more games.  Do you see how that factors in the comparison of raw numbers?

If they had similar game totals and Thornton had 360 more points you might be onto something, but as it stands your comparison is pointless without context.

Posted by Garth on 11/13/12 at 09:11 AM ET

PuckStopsHere's avatar

Garth: But we’re not discussing career achievements

PSH:  Of course we are.  You get into the Hall of Fame based on your career achievements.

Garth: Unless I missed something neither Thornton nor Datsyuk has retired, therefore neither of their careers is over, therefore we can’t compare career totals between two guys at different points in their careers.

PSH:  Correct.  They are not retired.  We can however compare their careers to date and that is what we are doing in any reasonable look at future Hall of Fame chances.

At this point I would arguie that Joe Thornton should be a lock to make the Hall of Fame regardless of what happens in the rest of his career.  He doesn’t have to do anything else.  He can have a poor season or two and fade away and still make it.  Datsyuk does not have that luxory.  He needs to keep playing well to make it.  Based on his current career achievements I do not think he is there yet.  Likely he will keep playing qwell and will get there - but you never know what the future holds.

Garth: Yes, Thornton has 360 more points than Datsyuk, but he’s also played 345 more games.  Do you see how that factors in the comparison of raw numbers?

PSH: You are arguing a point nobody is making.  If we look at per game numbers perhaps we would conclude that Steve Stamkos belongs in the Hall of Fame.  His point per game at this point is ahead of either Thornton or Datsyuk at this point in their careers - and yet nobody has mentioned Stamkos at all.  This is because he has a long way to go to have a sufficient career achievement.  That is why career numbers are what is important here.

Posted by PuckStopsHere on 11/13/12 at 03:55 PM ET

Avatar

You are arguing a point nobody is making.

YOU MADE THE POINT. 

“Thornton has more career assists than Datsyuk has career points.”

That’s you who said that.  That’s you who compared the points of a guy who has played over 1000 games to the points of a guy who has played 700 games.

Do you seriously not see that disconnect?

Honestly?

If we look at per game numbers perhaps we would conclude that Steve Stamkos belongs in the Hall of Fame.  His point per game at this point is ahead of either Thornton or Datsyuk at this point in their careers - and yet nobody has mentioned Stamkos at all.  This is because he has a long way to go to have a sufficient career achievement.

That is EXACTLY the point I was making.

“That’s hardly a fair comparison since Thornton has played for 15 years to Datsyuk’s 10.”

That’s me, that’s what I said.  Replace either player’s name and career length with Stamko and you’re making the exact same point.

You can’t use raw points to compare Thornton to Datsyuk any more than you can use them to compare Thornton to Stamkos.

THANK YOU for supporting my point.

Posted by Garth on 11/13/12 at 04:45 PM ET

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Paul Kukla founded Kukla’s Korner in 2005 and the site has since become the must-read site on the ‘net for all the latest happenings around the NHL.

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