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Franzen Out After Taking Hit To The Head

via Ansar Khan of Mlive,

Detroit Red Wings forward Johan Franzen will miss the remainder of Thursday’s game in Dallas after taking a hit to the head from defenseman Mark Fistric, general manager Ken Holland said.

Filed in: NHL Teams, Dallas Stars, Detroit Red Wings, | KK Hockey | Permalink
  Tags: johan+franzen, mark+fistric

Comments

Avatar

does not look like he really got hit hard at all.

Posted by bsalamon on 10/15/10 at 12:12 AM ET

Nathan's avatar

Really didn’t look that hard and definitely not even close to being dirty. Shit play from the Wings and shit durability from Franzen. Love the guy, bit at what point is the tag “injury prone” fair?

Posted by Nathan from the scoresheet! on 10/15/10 at 12:25 AM ET

YzermanZetterberg's avatar

When you see the last few replays that are slowed down, it looks like Fistric pops Franzen with his elbow.

Posted by YzermanZetterberg on 10/15/10 at 12:38 AM ET

sjketcheson's avatar

He took that entire hit to his head, his head pops back and his body follows. Dirty.

Posted by sjketcheson from Ottawa on 10/15/10 at 12:51 AM ET

Denver Wings's avatar

Elbow to the head, Fistric is looking right at him and sticks out the elbow at the last second.

Posted by Denver Wings on 10/15/10 at 12:58 AM ET

Nate A's avatar

At first I thought it was a shoulder hit, but the bit at the 33 second mark sure looks like an elbow/forearm was thrown and caught him right in the teeth.

Posted by Nate A from Detroit-ish on 10/15/10 at 01:09 AM ET

SK77's avatar

good news is you can see as he’s skating off that:

a) he’s spitting blood
b) he’s talking with the trainer
c) he looks pissed

which makes me think he could have lost some chiclets, but i’m not seeing any signs of a concussion there which is good news for everyone.

Posted by SK77 on 10/15/10 at 01:18 AM ET

Avatar

ya, after looking at this again, there is a definite elbow.  But, it seems like he more hurt from the fall than the hit.

Posted by bsalamon on 10/15/10 at 01:28 AM ET

OlderThanChelios's avatar

...the bit at the 33 second mark sure looks like an elbow/forearm was thrown and caught him right in the teeth.

And the leauge will take the same action against Fistric that they took against Keith when he elbowed Salei in the head. Nothing.

Now, is that hit the reason the Wings lost? Not even close. They played like crap and they deserved to lose. But Mule did not deserve to get an elbow to the head, even if it wasn’t from the “blind side.”

It’s the “from the front” versus “from the blind side” differentiation that’s allowing the league to dismiss those two incidents. So I guess it’ll take someone having his neck snapped by a frontal hit to the head for them to make that illegal.

Until then, we’ll just have to watch jackasses like Fistric making boneheaded plays until someone gets seriously hurt. When that happens, I just hope it’s a Hawk or a Star that’s the victim because that’s the only way they’ll get what this post is all about.

Posted by OlderThanChelios from Grand Rapids, MI on 10/15/10 at 01:30 AM ET

Mojo Tooth's avatar

As usual the homer wings fans are full of it. Here’s exactly what happened. Fistric was rotating his torso to apply the shoulder hit, and it happened right exactly as Franzen pulled up. Fistric’s shoulderpad caught Franzen right in the face. Unfortunate. Not even close to dirty. And not a single Red Wing got up in Fistric’s grille about it. These days someone tries to start a fight after every *clean* hit, let alone one that is perceived as dirty. Do you think Franzen’s linemates would just let that go if they thought there was anything dirty there? Bertuzzi was one of them, and if you stop Youtube at the right moment you can see he was looking *directly* at the play.

I’d be satisfied if someone posts a screenie of an elbow hitting Franzen? You’ve got the Youtube, you can make screencaps, just show me one screenshot and I’ll change my mind.

Bah, what’s the use. I’ve never seen a Wings fan change their mind about a perceived slight.

Posted by Mojo Tooth on 10/15/10 at 02:08 AM ET

hiero4life's avatar

By the way he went down it got him right on the button. He is like a boxer with a glass jaw. I hope its not a concussion. Elbow or shoulder pad means Jack shit to me if he is out.

Posted by hiero4life on 10/15/10 at 02:10 AM ET

Guilherme's avatar

I’d be satisfied if someone posts a screenie of an elbow hitting Franzen? You’ve got the Youtube, you can make screencaps, just show me one screenshot and I’ll change my mind.

Posted by Guilherme from Brazsil on 10/15/10 at 02:14 AM ET

Avatar

The fact there are 7 different theories on here as to what happened shows there was no intent and at most was an incidental injury where two players collide.

Posted by timbits on 10/15/10 at 03:01 AM ET

Twig's avatar

franzen almost high-sticked fistric as he fell. where have i seen that before?

Posted by Twig from Houston, TX on 10/15/10 at 03:10 AM ET

edillac's avatar

nothing wrong with that hit,and that screeshot from Guilherme proves nothing


but there is something wrong with a team playing like heartless robots,same thing as last season,pisses me off

Posted by edillac from isolation on 10/15/10 at 04:43 AM ET

Avatar

osgood wont make it to 400

Posted by callmedrw on 10/15/10 at 09:34 AM ET

Guilherme's avatar

but there is something wrong with a team playing like heartless robots,same thing as last season,pisses me off

We all agree. I mean, it has nothing to do with shit, but we all agree.

osgood wont make it to 400

Also unrelated, but I’ll bite this one. When I got home the boxscore said “6 saves, 4 goals allowed”. Now, I haven’t seen the goals and have no idea what Stuart did to screw things up this time. But I don’t care if it was me and Harry Potter playing defense, there’s no excuse for taking 4 goals in 10 shots.

Posted by Guilherme from Brazsil on 10/15/10 at 09:40 AM ET

redxblack's avatar

Osgood wasn’t stopping anything more difficult than a dump in. Pucks were going right past him. However, kudos to Dallas for accurate shots! I wish our boys were watching that. How many shots over the last two seasons has Zetterberg put over the top of the goal? Mickey blames the “spaghetti” flex of the new sticks, but there comes a point where you get used to it and get the pucks on net.

Posted by redxblack from Akron Ohio on 10/15/10 at 09:48 AM ET

Nathan's avatar

As usual the homer wings fans are full of it.

Pretty sure I was one of the first to post and say the hit didn’t look even close to being dirty. But with that said, Herm posted some pretty persuasive evidence that maybe I was wrong.

Even so, I don’t think there was any intent, and it wasn’t a blind-side hit. To me, this is one of those plays where you should fine guys, but not suspend them. We’re talking about a play where there really doesn’t appear to be intent, the player doesn’t have a history. A fine is good way to say, “Hey, we know you didn’t do it on purpose, but you need to be more conscious of where your elbows are flying.”

Posted by Nathan from the scoresheet! on 10/15/10 at 10:15 AM ET

Hank1974's avatar

Definite elbow to the head. You can clearly see that on the replay.

Verdict: No suspension or fine. NHL wants to send the message that you have to die in order to get disciplined.

Posted by Hank1974 on 10/15/10 at 10:57 AM ET

MOWingsfan19's avatar

I’d be satisfied if someone posts a screenie of an elbow hitting Franzen? You’ve got the Youtube, you can make screencaps, just show me one screenshot and I’ll change my mind.

Posted by Guilherme from Brazsil on 10/15/10 at 12:14 AM ET

Have a slice of humble pie.
And Franzen is definately not pulling up in the pic, he’s leaning right into the oncoming elbow/forearm. “Homer Wings” fans & Wing haters can all see it plain & simple.
I agree with Nate, when does the label injury prone get stuck on him? He can’t make it through October in what 4 years now?

Posted by MOWingsfan19 from I really like our team on 10/15/10 at 11:40 AM ET

scotts0's avatar

C’mon Wings fans, take off the Red tinted sunglasses.  The hit was not dirty….unfortunate, but not dirty.  Fistric was honing in on Franzen, Franzen then put on the breaks to stop short, at which point Fistric tried to cut in towards Franzen to still make contact with him.  Anyone ever play hockey before?  When doing a motion like that, you have to use your upper body as leverage, which is exactly what Fistric did.  It was just unfortunate that Franzen was leaning forward to the point in which his head was level with the elbow.  Not to mention, if anyone is crying blindside hit…they were facing each other, making it the exact opposite of blindside. 

Moral of the story…unfortunate?  Yes.  Dirty?  No.

Posted by scotts0 from New York on 10/15/10 at 12:02 PM ET

Guilherme's avatar

I agree with Nate, when does the label injury prone get stuck on him? He can’t make it through October in what 4 years now?

He should be labeled already. I already called it on A2Y, a guy like him can’t be called “the Mule”.

And for the pic, (sorry for not crediting) it’s from PaulInMiamiBeach

Posted by Guilherme from Brazsil on 10/15/10 at 12:04 PM ET

Hank1974's avatar

I’m sure Nicole Brown is at fault for dating other men when she knew her ex-husband was a possessive idiot. Or maybe it’s just her fault for getting her neck in the way of his knife.

As long as we keep giving a pass to someone who didn’t intentionally try to hurt someone, nothing will be solved.
Pretty soon the entire league will be AHL and ECHL call-ups because all the NHL players will be nursing concussions.

Posted by Hank1974 on 10/15/10 at 12:16 PM ET

MOWingsfan19's avatar

Franzen was leaning forward to the point in which his head was level with the elbow.

Look up, the elbow is at Fristic’s shoulder height. Nope, I never did play hockey, but pretty sure elbows at shoulder height aren’t the normal way of layong on the body either. Look at Franzens left skate, he was trying to push around the oncoming body & Fristic had to reach out at the last second.
Not saying it’s suspension worthy, but not “clean” either.

Posted by MOWingsfan19 from I really like our team on 10/15/10 at 12:32 PM ET

Nate A's avatar

Even so, I don’t think there was any intent, and it wasn’t a blind-side hit. To me, this is one of those plays where you should fine guys, but not suspend them. We’re talking about a play where there really doesn’t appear to be intent, the player doesn’t have a history. A fine is good way to say, “Hey, we know you didn’t do it on purpose, but you need to be more conscious of where your elbows are flying.”

I’m cool with that. But the wheel of justice is fickle, and i have no faith that the league would never be able to get that right either. I just want the league to acknowledge these things once in a while rather than just shrugging it all off.

Posted by Nate A from Detroit-ish on 10/15/10 at 12:33 PM ET

Guilherme's avatar

Intention means squat. If I run over someone with my car, I’ll be in jail anyway. Maybe for a shorter time, but that’s it.

If the NHL continues to take disciplinary measures based only on intent and/or result, those kind of hits will continue.

Posted by Guilherme from Brazsil on 10/15/10 at 01:10 PM ET

TheFreak's avatar

To me it looks like at the moment Fristic realized Frazen was cutting back, Fistric knew he was outplayed and played on instinct and threw the elbow out as a last ditch effort to stop Franzen.

When you see the angle from behind Franzen, look at Fristic eyes he’s watching Franzen’s head prior to throwing the elbow, then Fristic looks away at point of contact knowing he connected where he wanted. Well played and well timed split second decision when he realized Franzen out played him.

So yeah, I’d say intent was there to hit Franzen’s head.

Posted by TheFreak on 10/15/10 at 01:10 PM ET

Guilherme's avatar

Posted by TheFreak on 10/15/10 at 11:10 AM ET

True. And the intent to hit (the head) should be pretty clear. What amazes me is people that can’t differ “intent to hit” and “intent to injure”.

Posted by Guilherme from Brazsil on 10/15/10 at 01:15 PM ET

redxblack's avatar

and like in the other thread, it’s important that at least one of the 19 reiterates yet again that this hit did not cost the wings the game. They played like dogsh*t all night. This didn’t help, but it’s not the reason at all.

Posted by redxblack from Akron Ohio on 10/15/10 at 01:31 PM ET

awould's avatar

It was on the mild side of dirty. He definitely raised his elbow to make contact, which is a no-no. Franzen is not a small guy, so an elbow to his face isn’t easy. It was a bad play for sure, should’ve been called a penalty. Suspension? Unlikely given that Hjalmarrson only got 2 games for his hit and it was significantly worse.

And anyone who talks about glass jaw or Franzen being injury prone is a moron - an elbow to anyone’s face is likely to cause a concussion. Which is what it was. Hopefully he’s back soon.

Posted by awould on 10/15/10 at 01:50 PM ET

TheFreak's avatar

The Glass Mule

Posted by TheFreak on 10/15/10 at 01:53 PM ET

SpaceCityHockey's avatar

I guess my problem with this hit and the fact that he leaned in at the last second to still make hockey, is exactly the kind of thing that got Ovechkin suspended last year.  Ovechkin got beat and swerved at the last second and used his leg, which everyone claims was dirty as hell (granted he has done that a couple of times).  This time Fistric swerved at the last second to still try and make contact and used his elbow.

You need to think about what you are going to use when you make contact.  If you have to throw and elbow or leg out there to catch the other guy, you’ve been beat.  Again, I don’t think the intent to injure is necessarily there in either case.  But, you have to think about what you are doing.  Also I don’t think it was the hit itself that caused the issue as much as Franzen’s head slamming into the boards as he fell.  If we would have been a bit farther off the boards, I don’t think the injury happens. 

I don’t care about this hit with relation to last nights game.  The Wings lost it on their own.  I care about it with its potential impact to the next indeterminate number of games.

Posted by SpaceCityHockey from Houston, TX on 10/15/10 at 02:00 PM ET

SpaceCityHockey's avatar

Ok, what I thought was the sound of Franzen’s head hitting the boards, was actually his stick hitting the glass.  So it does look like it was all from the elbow shot.

Posted by SpaceCityHockey from Houston, TX on 10/15/10 at 02:03 PM ET

redxblack's avatar

if Franzen is injury prone - then http://redwings.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=538407
He’s a target, not a glassjaw.

Posted by redxblack from Akron Ohio on 10/15/10 at 02:11 PM ET

WingsFaninCO's avatar

As far as I see, this is a dirty hit. 

As others have pointed out, Franzen has Fistric beat, so Fistric threw his elbow out in hopes of making the mistake less grievous (kinda like a defensemen throwing his leg out to slow up a forward who is burning past him).  Franzen is leaning down a little and that shoulder-height elbow catches him in the face. 

(Note: the fact that his elbow was shoulder-height shows that this was intentional.  There is NO WAY a shoulder-height elbow is an accident). 

Some people are clamoring for suspension or fining, and I don’t think those are appropriate here.  However, by all means this deserved a penalty, at least a minor, maybe a major.  The elbowing rules are:

Rule 45 - Elbowing

45.1 Elbowing - Elbowing shall mean the use of an extended elbow in a manner that may or may not cause injury.

45.2 Minor Penalty - The Referee, at his discretion, may assess a minor penalty, based on the degree of violence, to a player guilty of elbowing an opponent.

45.3 Major Penalty - A major penalty, at the discretion of the Referee, shall be imposed on any player who uses his elbow to foul an opponent. A major penalty must be imposed under this rule for a foul resulting in an injury to the face or head of an opponent (see 45.5).


Not that any of this would have changed the outcome of the game last night, but I desperately crave consistency in rules and officiating.

Posted by WingsFaninCO on 10/15/10 at 04:23 PM ET

Lindas1st's avatar

There goes another 40+ goal season.

Posted by Lindas1st from New England on 10/15/10 at 04:50 PM ET

Paul's avatar

“I thought it was a good hit,” Crawford said. “It was a north-south play. Their player goes down very low, when he turns he turns he comes down and you get hit. Mark had him lined up the whole way, he tried to cut back on him and he hit him.”

Stars GM Joe Nieuwendyk was surprised at Detroit’s reaction to the play.

more at ESPN Dallas.

Posted by Paul from Motown Area on 10/15/10 at 06:24 PM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

Gotta keep stirring that pot with a Marc Crawford quote, dontcha Paul?  wink

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 10/15/10 at 06:26 PM ET

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