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Canucks Not Happy With No Call On Raymond Hit

Sportsnet (headline on their hockey page) is reporting sources are telling Sportsnet’s Dan Murphy that Vancouver Canucks forward Mason Raymond suffered a fractured vertebrae while Darren Dreger of TSN writes,

The Vancouver Canucks were very upset that there was no penalty call on the play where Mason Raymond was injured on the first shift of the game.

Canucks general manager Mike Gillis stormed out of the TD Garden after Game 6, questioning a lot of people as he headed toward the Canucks’ bus as to whether or not anyone saw the puck near Raymond when he was hit by Johnny Boychuk.

continued

Watch the NBC broadcast of the hit…

Filed in: NHL Teams, Boston Bruins, Vancouver Canucks, | KK Hockey | Permalink
  Tags: johnny+boychuk, mason+raymond

Comments

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eternal_fields's avatar

Gather the scribes. . . . and have your notebooks ready for Gillis’ next whimper session. It’s coming.

Posted by eternal_fields on 06/14/11 at 12:20 PM ET

Evilpens's avatar

it was interference but what else did he want called ?

Posted by Evilpens on 06/14/11 at 12:24 PM ET

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@ Evilpens

Maybe just that, interference should have been called. And by the criteria of Rome/Horton perhaps an interference major.

Posted by BP on 06/14/11 at 12:28 PM ET

Leo_Racicot's avatar

Posted by Evilpens on 06/14/11 at 10:24 AM ET

I’m guessing they were looking for interference as well.  An early PP with them jumping out of the gates may have resulted in an entirely more enjoyable game last night for everybody.

Adding another key piece to the IR/Suspension (Samuellson, Rome, Hamhuis, and now Raymond) heap, Gillis probably wanted to let everybody know that the league brass needs to review this one closely.

Posted by Leo_Racicot on 06/14/11 at 12:30 PM ET

SnLO's avatar

The officials were letting the interference go (both ways) inconsistently the entire game. Unfortunate the player got hurt though, I hope he completely recovers.

I find it disturbing that there has been an increasing trend, over the last few years, of too much talk about the officiating; their presence is becoming noticed and are having too much of an influence in the outcome of games.

Posted by SnLO from beyond the M-1 on 06/14/11 at 12:32 PM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

Reckless, unnecessary, and late are all words I used to describe the Aaron Rome hit.

No attempt to play the puck was a phrase I’ve used to call for a Raffi Torres suspension before.

Boychuk had plenty of time to stop holding Raymond’s head down as the coasted with speed into the boards.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 06/14/11 at 12:36 PM ET

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The puck crosses Raymonds Path at 4 Seconds into the clip, and Raymond is into the boards at 6 seconds in the clip (with contact being made at 5 seconds)  I don’t see this as interference. 


The referees shouldn’t take a clean play and turn it into a penalty just because someone got hurt on it.

Posted by wingsnut25 from Cheboygan, MI on 06/14/11 at 12:44 PM ET

HockeyTownTodd's avatar

I’m not sure I would even call it a hit, more of an entanglement.

Raymond initiated contact as he turned to follow the pucks new path.

Watch it at real time speed, it looks to me that Boychuck was preoccupied protecting his own safety going into the boards.

It is very easy to analyze watching in slow-motion. assuming a calculated response by the players rather than a reflexive response.

Posted by HockeyTownTodd on 06/14/11 at 12:49 PM ET

eternal_fields's avatar

It’s really hard - for me - to feel any sympathy for Gillis or the Canucks after what Torres did to Brent Seabrook.

In terms of egregious interference with intent to injure, that play far exceeds this one. Seabrook had not played the puck and Torres made absolutely no attempt to play the puck. Instead, he went right for Seabrook’s head.

Here you have a puck trickle between Raymond’s legs and Boychuck just sort of rolled with the momentum into the boards. And the injury does appear to be of the flukish variety.

That said, I hope Raymond is okay and any damage that resulted from this play is temporary and short-term.

Again, calls tend to even out, and Gillis might have more credibility around the league today if he had not established a reputation as being the Little Boy Who Cried Wolf.

Posted by eternal_fields on 06/14/11 at 12:49 PM ET

eternal_fields's avatar

The referees shouldn’t take a clean play and turn it into a penalty just because someone got hurt on it.

And therein lies the rub. NHL justice is so fluid, so subjective. Often the outcome determines the penalty, when other factors such as intent to injure and a player’s repuration should also factor into the equation.

Posted by eternal_fields on 06/14/11 at 12:54 PM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

Although it does appear that the only option either of these players have to avoid this outcome after contact is made is to fall to the ice and risk taking a diving penalty.

Boychuk pushing Raymond at the moment of contact with the boards doesn’t help though.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 06/14/11 at 12:57 PM ET

Wings_in_NYC's avatar

Exactly, that wasn’t a hit. It was an entanglement. Not sure what could be or even should be called in this situation. Gillis is just mad because his guy got hurt, but it wasn’t really the fault of the Bruins player. It was an unfortunate outcome to an otherwise harmless looking play.

Posted by Wings_in_NYC on 06/14/11 at 01:07 PM ET

Leo_Racicot's avatar

Boychuk pushing Raymond at the moment of contact with the boards doesn’t help though.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 06/14/11 at 10:57 AM ET

That’s where I’m at as well this morning. 

The argument is that guys are told to finish their checks.  However, I’m not sure how you can justify a guy being hunched over at a 90 degree angle while gliding backwards to the boards at 8 feet out as being check-worthy material.

JJ, I’ve replied to you a few times in the last few days (along with a few others in recent weeks since finally getting on to twitter) and it was kindly pointed out to my sheltered brain yesterday by a friend that private account tweets do not show up on non-follower pages.  If you want to be annoyed by sporadic tweets (mostly replies and re-posts), @LeoRacicot.

Posted by Leo_Racicot on 06/14/11 at 01:12 PM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

Posted by Leo_Racicot on 06/14/11 at 11:12 AM ET

Done.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 06/14/11 at 01:13 PM ET

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wingsnut, after the Rome hit the NHL said the standard for a late hit is anything .5 seconds after the puck is released. According to Bob Mackenzie who counted the video frames Rome hit Horton .94 seconds (28 of 30 frames @ 30 per sec.) after the puck was gone so .44 seconds late for a 4 game suspension. By your count Boychuck is more than a second late, should have been 5 and a game by the NHL rule.
Also, neck brace, stretcher all the bells and whistles for Horton (and rightly so) and they let Raymond get carried off by his teammates with his skates dragging behind him. WTF?!

Posted by vansteve on 06/14/11 at 01:15 PM ET

Leo_Racicot's avatar

The referees shouldn’t take a clean play and turn it into a penalty just because someone got hurt on it.

Posted by wingsnut25 from Sault Ste. Marie, MI. on 06/14/11 at 10:44 AM

And therein lies the rub. NHL justice is so fluid, so subjective. Often the outcome determines the penalty, when other factors such as intent to injure and a player’s repuration should also factor into the equation.

Posted by eternal_fields on 06/14/11 at 10:54 AM ET

Spot on.  If I’m not mistaken, Rome wasn’t going to be called for interference until after Horton was laying on the ice?

Posted by Leo_Racicot on 06/14/11 at 01:16 PM ET

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The repeated unsubstantiated whining from Gillis is hurting the game of hockey.  The league needs to quietly tell him to keep his mouth shut.

Posted by Yimmy from MN on 06/14/11 at 01:17 PM ET

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Yimmy what kind of a GM would he be if he didn’t defend his players? would you tolerate your GM not defending your players? Trolling jackass

Posted by vansteve on 06/14/11 at 01:21 PM ET

Steve Strowbridge's avatar

An early PP with them jumping out of the gates may have resulted in an entirely more enjoyable game last night for everybody.

I respectfully disagree with you, sir.

Posted by Steve Strowbridge from St. John's, NL, CA on 06/14/11 at 01:22 PM ET

Paul's avatar

from TSN,

Vancouver Canucks forward Mason Raymond reportedly will not return for Game 7 of the Stanley Cup Final and will need four-to-six months of recovery after suffering a back and hip injury in Monday’s 5-2 loss to the Boston Bruins.

Posted by Paul from Motown Area on 06/14/11 at 01:25 PM ET

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You people that are still outraged by the Aaron Rome suspension crack me up. And I have no horse in the race at all. The Rome hit was late, there was no puck and it was blatant intent to injure. Rome can cry me a river. I thought he should have gotten 25 games. Second blast to someone’s unsuspecting head, 50 games. Third offense, 100 games. It would put a stop to it.

The Mason Raymond injury occurred on a play that was as inoccuous as it gets. It’s very unfortunate he got hurt as he’s a nice player.

Posted by Eric H. on 06/14/11 at 01:30 PM ET

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Eric, not sure who “you people” are but how is this any different? no puck, defenceless player, attempt to injure, seriously injured player. Spin the wheel of justice is all I’m saying.

Posted by vansteve on 06/14/11 at 01:37 PM ET

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2 for interference max. Unfortunate, but there is clearly no intent to injure. This is an accident nothing more. Gillis trying to turn it into an criminal offense is what is out of line. Sure he can defend his players, but there are limts. He doesn’t know any limits other than to whine and bitch. All this does is fuel the conspiracy theorists that predominate in Vancouver. “The league hates them, Canada hates them”, by the time this series is over North America hates them.

Posted by timbits on 06/14/11 at 01:38 PM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

You people that are still outraged by the Aaron Rome suspension crack me up

I’m wondering where you’re reading outrage at the Aaron Rome suspension.

I can tell the difference between the hit that got Rome four games and this one.  I agreed with the Rome suspension.  I just also think that, on top of several parts unfortunate tie-up, there are also elements of unnecessary contact, reckless play, and late hitting. 

I’d probably be outraged if Boychuck got suspended four games for this.  I’m not so sure I’d be pissed if he missed game seven for it.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 06/14/11 at 01:42 PM ET

Leo_Racicot's avatar

I respectfully disagree with you, sir.

Posted by Steve Strowbridge from St. John’s, NL, CA on 06/14/11 at 11:22 AM ET

Ha! 

You got me there, Steve.

I consider my attendance at game 7 of the 2002 Wings-Avs conference finals (7-0 wings) one of the better moments in his sporting life.

Happy you B’s fans got to kick back and relax for most of that game last night (considering what was on the line, that was HUGE).  For a guy that has no affiliation to either team (other than wanting see a good series), the games in Boston have been ridiculous.

Posted by Leo_Racicot on 06/14/11 at 01:47 PM ET

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Posted by vansteve on 06/14/11 at 11:37 AM ET

Sorry, where’s Boychuck’s intent to injure?

Posted by Garth on 06/14/11 at 01:47 PM ET

Steve Strowbridge's avatar

Happy you B’s fans got to kick back and relax for most of that game last night

After last years Philly melt down, I find it hard to relax even when they have a lead like last night. No joke. My heart hates it when I watch hockey.

Posted by Steve Strowbridge from St. John's, NL, CA on 06/14/11 at 01:51 PM ET

Avatar

And as for interference, the puck is right at both of their feet, right between the two of them, when contact is initiated and there is in no way any kind of intent to injure, that is just ridiculous.

It was ugly, it had a very unfortunate result, but I really can’t fault them for not giving him a penalty.

Posted by Garth on 06/14/11 at 01:52 PM ET

Steve Strowbridge's avatar

Trolling jackass

Really? Name calling?

Posted by Steve Strowbridge from St. John's, NL, CA on 06/14/11 at 01:52 PM ET

Avatar

Posted by vansteve on 06/14/11 at 11:21 AM ET

But he’s not defending his players.  He’s whining and crying about a perceived slight that is NOT there.

Posted by Garth on 06/14/11 at 01:58 PM ET

Paul's avatar

Please ease up on the name calling, it serves no purpose.

Thanks.

Posted by Paul from Motown Area on 06/14/11 at 02:01 PM ET

awould's avatar

And as for interference, the puck is right at both of their feet, right between the two of them, when contact is initiated and there is in no way any kind of intent to injure, that is just ridiculous.

It was ugly, it had a very unfortunate result, but I really can’t fault them for not giving him a penalty.

Agreed. No interference if the puck is at his feet. It wasn’t even a hit, an ‘entaglement’ is a good description. I think it was unfortunate and it sucks for Raymond, but that was not a penalty and a suspension would be absurd.

It reminds me of that hit Doan laid on Franzen where he ended up face first in the boards; it wasn’t a dirty hit so much as just bad timing and Franzen was off balance.

Posted by awould on 06/14/11 at 02:02 PM ET

shazam88's avatar

I don’t see this as a penalty, though I wouldn’t have been outraged if it was as interference minor and the refs handled the rest of the game uniformly. To my eyes, Raymond appeared to be turning his body to avoid going head on into the boards, and Boychuk just keeps pushing him slowly.  It’s not hard to see from the angles involved how Raymond got injured, but that’s hockey for the most part.

No problem with Gillis speaking up, though. It’s not a whining thing, it’s a matter of it being the last game of playoffs and trying to take attention and pressure off his team as they try to avoid choking. We see it in hockey and basketball all the time…coaches, GMs, even owners speaking about officiating and whatnot. Only the blogosphere cares.

Posted by shazam88 from SoCal on 06/14/11 at 02:18 PM ET

Steve Strowbridge's avatar

Only the blogosphere cares.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=363838

Not just the blogosphere. The league has already fined him over this during this years playoffs.

Posted by Steve Strowbridge from St. John's, NL, CA on 06/14/11 at 02:25 PM ET

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It’s not a whining thing

But it is.  His team was up near the top of the league in taking penalties all season, then when the same thing happens in the playoffs he bitches to the media about it.

If you don’t want your team to take so many penalties, change the way the coaches tell them to play or trade the penalty-prone players, don’t complain about some phony bias to the media.

Of course, what do I know, he complained to the media and suddenly his team is getting away with a lot more, so I guess it worked and he might as well do it again today so that the NHL will have the refs back off of the Canucks in the most important game of the season.

Posted by Garth on 06/14/11 at 02:29 PM ET

shazam88's avatar

Not just the blogosphere. The league has already fined him over this during this years playoffs.

True, a fine is pretty much a formality when you make certain statements. Doubt anyone in league offices really cares, though.

Of course, what do I know, he complained to the media and suddenly his team is getting away with a lot more, so I guess it worked and he might as well do it again today so that the NHL will have the refs back off of the Canucks in the most important game of the season.

That’s more or less the point. Whether it influences the officials, which I tend to doubt, at the least it slightly lessens the amount of talk surrounding Luongo. Slightly.

Posted by shazam88 from SoCal on 06/14/11 at 02:44 PM ET

eternal_fields's avatar

But it is.  His team was up near the top of the league in taking penalties all season, then when the same thing happens in the playoffs he bitches to the media about it.

You bet it is.

I know the Hawks are hated around here but last year I learned a valuable lesson from none other than Rocky Wirtz. Hawks went up 2-0 and then went to Philly and dropped the next two games. A lot of stress and panic as the Hawks returned for a nerve-wracking Game Five.

Pronger was manhandling Big Buff and cross-checking him, and then it was Buff who got called for some things that Hawks fans - myself included - thought were minor in comparison.

I met Rocky Wirtz before Game Five and asked him if anything was said through back-channels to the league offices. “No,” he said. “It’s not worth it. You let the players play the games this time of year.” (paraphrased)

At the time, I was a bit stunned. But in retrospect, particularly in light of Gillis’ actions, it makes perfect sense.

I noted that Stan Bowman was silent throughout the postseason last year, so it appears - to me, at least - that the organization is taking the high road and putting its money where its mouth is.

I will now don my flame-proof asbestos suit.

Posted by eternal_fields on 06/14/11 at 02:45 PM ET

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This was a very uncomfortable-looking hit, but I’m not even sure it’s interference, or anything illegal, really. When the puck’s at one guy’s feet, the league’s always given the other player leeway to ride the other guy off into the boards, which Boychuk does, without any extra force, so to speak. The league allowing this has almost never resulted in injury before, in my recollection. Guys who really, really like this play: your Peter Popovics, Chris Theriens and Hal Gills don’t exactly have long lists of ‘victims’ sent to IR.

Raymond’s in a bad position, but I’m not sure that’s anyone’s fault or that anything could be done about it once the initial contact, which was legal, was made. Sort of reminds me of Derek Engelland’s hit on Mark Savard, but not even as juicy as that. Even Jack Edwards thought that one was legal.

I probably give Boychuk nothing for this hit. Or I give Boychuk nothing and find some bogus reason to suspend Lucic for a game, since he’s about 20 suspension-games shy this season, by my count.

Posted by steviesteve on 06/14/11 at 02:54 PM ET

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I will now don my flame-proof asbestos suit.

Not everyone here hates the ‘hawks!

Posted by timbits on 06/14/11 at 02:55 PM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

it appears - to me, at least - that the [Blackhawks] organization is taking the high road and putting its money where its mouth is.

Patrick Kane already got his payday.

I keed.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 06/14/11 at 02:57 PM ET

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