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Afternoon Line

Jeremy Roenick did a radio interview last night with Josh Rimer of NextSportStar and discussed numerous topics including the CBA, Shane Doan and as you can see, Sidney Crosby.

You can download the whole show (339mb, .mov file) if you care to watch/listen from start to finish.

Filed in: NHL Teams, Pittsburgh Penguins, NHL Talk, NHLPA, | KK Hockey | Permalink
 

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i dont understand JR 99% of the time… these latest comments fall into the 99% of the time.

Posted by gretzky_to_lemieux on 08/21/12 at 03:28 PM ET

IwoCPO's avatar

i dont understand JR 99% of the time… these latest comments fall into the 99% of the time.

Posted by gretzky_to_lemieux on 08/21/12 at 01:28 PM ET

what’s not to understand? Rosby has a history of concussions.  Roenick questions the intelligence of a 10-year deal. I get it.

Posted by IwoCPO from Sunny San Diego, bitches on 08/21/12 at 03:33 PM ET

awould's avatar

Roenick questions the intelligence of a 10-year deal... that to my knowledge was uninsurable due to the concussion issues. Crazy.

Posted by awould on 08/21/12 at 03:35 PM ET

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I get it.

I don’t.  Who gives a shit what kind of contract Pittsburgh gave to Crosby?

Posted by Garth on 08/21/12 at 03:36 PM ET

bezukov's avatar

Rosby has a history of concussions.  Roenick questions the intelligence of a 10-year deal. I get it.

Posted by IwoCPO from Sunny San Diego, bitches on 08/21/12 at 01:33 PM ET

I’m sure someone is waiting in the weeds to pigeonhole me as another “typical Red Wings fan” (I thought I’d go ahead and do that for you)... but I think JR managed to form a coherent thought this time… even if he is overstating the risk the Pens are taking.

Posted by bezukov from the kids are alright. on 08/21/12 at 03:38 PM ET

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I don’t.  Who gives a shit what kind of contract Pittsburgh gave to Crosby?
Posted by Garth on 08/21/12 at 01:36 PM ET

well, seeing as a new CBA is about to get hammered out, a lot of folks do.  namely owners and players (and some fans).  the Pens will be on the hook for every penny of that contract no matter if Sid is injured or not.  no insurance steps in to take that burden off of what is a pretty small market that already owes quite a bit of money for the new arena.

wasnt doing so well before Crosby came along as I remember.

Posted by ryan on 08/21/12 at 03:47 PM ET

Paul's avatar

Josh was kind enough to transcribe the whole Roenick interview..


Roenick
I think the offer that the owners put on the table was an absolute embarrassment. It was an absolute e embarrassment to the negotiating process of a CBA. And here’s no way that the players would ever, ever agree to a deal that the owners put in front of the players.

To me, it felt like a bullying proposal, saying ‘This is what’s going to happen, you guys, and you guys are going to come on your terms. And I’m sure that the players quickly refused it and came back with something that was a little bit more decent but maybe incomplete in what it needed to get done, but something that was definitely more of the realm of where the players and the owners should be looking at, which tells me there’s a very big gap in what the owners want and what the players are willing to give. And if that’s the case and we go into another year of a lockout, third lockout in 15, 17 years, second lockout in eight years, it’s going to be very detrimental to the National Hockey League. It’s going to be detrimental to the reputation of the National Hockey League. Something needs to be done because obviously there’s a lot of money at stake and obviously both sides want a big piece of that money.

Lockout?
I don’t see how there can’t be, at least to start the season. The proposals, especially the owners’ proposal was so out of bounds and so off the mark, that I don’t know how they can avoid it. It’s going to take a lot of work from Bettman and Fehr to really put some hours into talking about what it’s going to take to get these teams on the ice. It’s a big money game right now. There’s a lot of things going on and the league’s at an all-time high in terms of its revenue and it’s at an all-time high of its popularity. And they’re playing with fire right now. They’re playing with fire, and I don’t think the national hockey league is in a very positive place to where they want to mess with the fans. We’re already the fourth lowest major professional sport, and we just had a great year on NBC where we just blew out all records in terms of our ratings and the amount of games that we had on in the states. We had great ratings in Canada, and now you’re going to take the game off the ice. It’s just a bad move, it’s a bad business move on both the NHLPA and the NHL if this were to happen.

04-05
That lockout needed to happen. I really think that the players, they were making their money, the owners were struggling to make money. The owners were in a position where they wanted to be better suited to make more of the revenue. And I really think that the owners really laid down a deal that they had to lay down. They had to play strong ball, and we did a deal that put a cap on the table when [Bob] Goodneow said there was no way we would ever have a cap, and we put a cap on. We gave back 24 percent of our contracts for the next year, which was the stupidest thing in the history of negotiating, but we did it. And the owners won the battle. And now they’re coming in seven years later and they’re pushing again and they’re pushing for the 24 percent and they’re pushing for the higher percentage of revenue stream. You know what, It’s not a greed thing; I definitely believe that the owners need to make their money, but it can’t be a bullying system in order to get that money. It has to be good negotiating tactics.

They wait till the last minute to get stuff done, and the lockout is almost inevitable.

Welcome to hockey because egos don’t want to get out of the way and nobody wants to look out for what’s the best scenario. The best scenario is the National Hockey League, the best scenario is hockey, the best scenario is bringing hockey to the fans. And everybody wants to look at it as the big business first instead of taking care of what’s really important, and that’s putting a good quality game on the ice for the fans. It’s just a shame.

Owners/players prepared to lose season?
The problem is a lot of players [very few players are still around]

There’s a large majority of the National Hockey League that has not endured a lockout yet. Trust me, when they see the amount of money that’s not being put in their bank account and a lot of stuff that happens, when the owners see their buildings empty for a long period of time, there’s going to be a lot of panic on both sides because it’s not fun.

Advice?
It’s just get the egos out of this. The egos seem to be the biggest obstruction on both sides. The owners have big egos, the players have big egos; everybody wants their share of the pie. If it’s that big of a deal, go 50-50…

split it 50-50, and protect the owners and the GMs from themselves, make it five-year maximum contracts so they don’t have these stupid, ridiculous, idiotic 13, 14-year deals that are worth $120 million that we haven’t seen anyone live up to yet. Let’s stop being stupid and start being reasonable and put the one thing that’s important in this whole thing in front, and that’s the game of hockey.

I don’t mind the six-year deal.s five to six year deals, that’s ok. When you give Suter and Parise those 10, 12-year, 13 year 14year deals, you’re committing contract suicide right here. Look what happened to Yashin, look what happened to DiPietro, none of these guys have lived up to these long-term contracts because this game is so hard, it’s so physically demanding, it is one of the most powerful, hard-hitting, injury-filled games in the world and you’re giving these 13-year contracts. And then you have the Pittsburgh Penguins who give the guy who has the biggest concussion problems in all of hockey a 10-year deal or whatever Sidney Crosby got. I hope this concussion clause is in there. I think Sidney Crosby is the best player in the game, don’t get me wrong, but when you have concussion problems the way that he has in the last year and a half and you give him a 10-year deal, is that smart business? I don’t think so.

On Doan
I know Shane wants to stay in Phoenix … He’s got really good offers on the table right now. I know the Buffalo Sabres have offered him a tremendous amount of money, the kind of money that I can’t see how he’s turned it down.

Posted by Paul from Motown Area on 08/21/12 at 03:51 PM ET

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the Pens will be on the hook for every penny of that contract no matter if Sid is injured or not.

Did they already change the rules?  Is it an over-35 contract?  Because if not, should Crosby sustain a career-ending injury and retire, Pittsburgh would be on the hook for $0 remaining on the contract.

Or maybe they’re simply willing to take the risk.

Again, I don’t see why anyone except Penguins management really gives a damn.

I can’t imagine anyone who gets a concussion in the near future is going to try to point to Crosby’s contract as a reason that he should be given a 10-year contract also.

Posted by Garth on 08/21/12 at 04:25 PM ET

Chris in Hockey Hell's avatar

I’m amazed, but I actually agree with Roenick.

Posted by Chris in Hockey Hell from Ann Arbor, MI but LIVING in Columbia, TN on 08/21/12 at 04:32 PM ET

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Garth, AFAIK, let’s say crosby gets injured again and never plays… Unless he decides to retire (and that’s 100% up to him and him alone) he will be payd the entire money on the contract…  This money wont count against sallary cap, but it’s still paid, I think

If I’m wrong, feel free to correct me, but if I remember it right, that’s the way this things work

Posted by Zqto from Brazil on 08/21/12 at 04:42 PM ET

IwoCPO's avatar

I get it.

I don’t.  Who gives a shit what kind of contract Pittsburgh gave to Crosby?

Posted by Garth on 08/21/12 at 01:36 PM ET

Wow Garth. Angry elf.  I “give a shit” because I like to see the Pens do stupid things and I like to take advantage of opportunities to say “Rosby”.

Posted by IwoCPO from Sunny San Diego, bitches on 08/21/12 at 04:49 PM ET

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Wow Garth. Angry elf.  I “give a shit” because I like to see the Pens do stupid things and I like to take advantage of opportunities to say “Rosby”.

Crosby is the best player in the world.  No amount of Datysuk love will change that.  Crosby was going to get paid regardless if it was the penguins or not.  There are risks in the world, especially hockey.  The flyers took a risk on Pronger when he was healthy and guess what, he is done with a concussion… possibly for life.  The risk may be higher with Sid due to his past, BUT the reward is also greater due to his past.

As wing fans you can hate the guy if you want, but to suggest the penguins made a mistake by signing the best player in the world to a long term deal is dumb.

Posted by gretzky_to_lemieux on 08/21/12 at 05:01 PM ET

IwoCPO's avatar

As wing fans you can hate the guy if you want, but to suggest the penguins made a mistake by signing the best player in the world to a long term deal is dumb.

Posted by gretzky_to_lemieux on 08/21/12 at 03:01 PM ET

You’re right. Rosby is a great player.  Nearly as great as Datsyuk.

And yes, 10 years for a concussion-riddled hockey player is stupid.  Idiotic, in fact.  5 years is too much.  The guy barely came back last year and he’s one big hit away from another (if science is correct and concussions occur more often once you’ve suffered at least one…there are multiple citations for this. Google: “concussion likelihood after 1” and see what I mean).

I’ll grant you his elite status, obviously. I’ve never claimed he wasn’t a great player.  A petulant bitch who dives, slashes and yam sacks? Yes, but still a great player.  At the same time, while I’m granting you that, your admission that a ten-year deal is stupid is now required.

Posted by IwoCPO from Sunny San Diego, bitches on 08/21/12 at 05:09 PM ET

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Posted by gretzky_to_lemieux

It’s not dumb… Its a probability, and a pretty high one

Even you, as a pens fan, cannot be so blind as not to see that Crysby is 1 hit away from exactly the same path Pronger is going… Just as Savard went before them, and Lindros a lot while back

Wishful thinking is not gonna matter if it happens… Its exactly a gamble, and a 100 million dollar gamble, more precisely

Posted by Zqto from Brazil on 08/21/12 at 05:12 PM ET

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This money wont count against sallary cap, but it’s still paid, I think

Well, AFAIK, the Pens and Crosby agreed to the terms of the contract, so if they’re cool with it why does Roenick (or anyone who doesn’t take great pleasure is calling him Rosby) give a good *#$%@& what contract they signed?

Angry elf.

Well, you sure nailed me.  I am both angry and small of stature.

Posted by Garth on 08/21/12 at 05:12 PM ET

IwoCPO's avatar

I am both angry and small of stature.

I’m very perceptive Garth. It’s a gift.  Glad you didn’t take offense.  You know I like me some Oompas.

Posted by IwoCPO from Sunny San Diego, bitches on 08/21/12 at 05:17 PM ET

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You know I like me some Oompas.

I am now far too angry to properly respond to this.  Also, I had to piece my keyboard back together after smashing it with my tiny little fists.

Posted by Garth on 08/21/12 at 05:27 PM ET

IwoCPO's avatar

I am now far too angry to properly respond to this.  Also, I had to piece my keyboard back together after smashing it with my tiny little fists.

Posted by Garth on 08/21/12 at 03:27 PM ET

Drink warm, cheap American beer.  It helps everything. I’d recommend PBR.  And with that, I’m off to the golf course.

Posted by IwoCPO from Sunny San Diego, bitches on 08/21/12 at 05:29 PM ET

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It helps everything. I’d recommend PBR.

I don’t usually do the whole breakfast-for-dinner thing, but I can make an exception…

Posted by Garth on 08/21/12 at 05:32 PM ET

RorSchach's avatar

It’s like two bitches in a pot. ( Angry Elf and the Master )

Only kidding.

While I don’t actually care about the whole contract thing.. I can’t help but to think it’s definitely a retarded one. But hey, who gives a flying fuch what I think?

Posted by RorSchach from Datsberg on 08/21/12 at 05:43 PM ET

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A lot less weird than signing Franzen for 11 years at age 29, considering Franzen’s not only prone to miss time in his prime with both legit injuries (concussions, neck problems, back problems, shoulders, knee) and hangnails, but considering also that he’s inconsistent, lazy, soft and probably the least marketable player in the league with a contract that long.

Posted by larry from pitt on 08/21/12 at 06:24 PM ET

YYZerman's avatar

A lot less weird than signing Franzen for 11 years at age 29, considering Franzen’s not only prone to miss time in his prime with both legit injuries (concussions, neck problems, back problems, shoulders, knee) and hangnails, but considering also that he’s inconsistent, lazy, soft and probably the least marketable player in the league with a contract that long.

Posted by larry from pitt on 08/21/12 at 04:24 PM ET


8.7 million vs 3.9 million due each year if they get knocked out with injury’s. Which would you want if that player never plays again?

Posted by YYZerman from Detroit, Michigan on 08/21/12 at 06:34 PM ET

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Franzén’s stupid contract doesn’t make Crosby’s less stupid.

Crosby being a Penguin doesn’t make his contract stupid.

Crosby being concussion-prone makes the deal stupid.

Posted by Herm from the office on 08/21/12 at 06:58 PM ET

tuxedoTshirt's avatar

Well, it’s a PR bind, and I don’t see how they had any choice.  Even if he does’t play, his involvement and endorsement is likely worth that much anyway.
And it’s true, the Franzen deal is stupid by any criterion.

Posted by tuxedoTshirt from the Home of the 1937 World Champions on 08/21/12 at 07:27 PM ET

tuxedoTshirt's avatar

the Franzen deal is stupid by any criterion.

Except, of course, the obvious: insurability.

Posted by tuxedoTshirt from the Home of the 1937 World Champions on 08/21/12 at 07:43 PM ET

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Again, I don’t see why anyone except Penguins management really gives a damn.

Because there are occasionally these kinds of people who actually care about a whole sport and not just the 23 members of that sport which happen to wear the same jersey.

To these strange, nearly-mythical creatures, all sorts of things which happen beyond the bounds of one teams transaction list merit notice and discussion.

In this specific instance, if I had to guess I’d say these hockey unicorns are interested in the existence of a contract that’s incredibly risky for a franchise established (through a variety of means) as one of the NHL’s flagship’s.

Posted by HockeyinHD on 08/21/12 at 08:08 PM ET

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In this specific instance, if I had to guess I’d say these hockey unicorns are interested in the existence of a contract that’s incredibly risky for a franchise established (through a variety of means) as one of the NHL’s flagship’s.

And if they have no vested interest in the team (ie. are not a part of the team or a supporter of the team) then why would they care?

I could see someone caring if your team has a concussion-prone player on an expiring contract and he’s poached by another team that offers him a 10-year contract because they know that your team would never offer him, but this is simply Pittsburgh ensuring that their flagship player likely spends the rest of his career in Pittsburgh.

Hell, this isn’t even something that affects the Pens’ capwise.  If it was like the Pronger deal, where he’s injury prone and it’s a 35+ contract that would be one thing, but the only people this affects are the people writing the checks, and they seem to be OK with it.

Posted by Garth on 08/21/12 at 08:52 PM ET

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I’ve never liked long term contracts like Crosby’s just because there is so much that can go wrong in them.  I won’t fault the Penguins for making the deal though.  The Pens are on the most solid financial ground they have ever been in their entire history, so even worse case scenario where Crosby would be injured this year for the rest of his career, they would be fine financially.  On the ice, that may be different, but the only way this contract hurts them is if that happens.  Is he more likely to get a concussion than a player who hasn’t?  Of course, but there’s always the possibility he never gets one again.  When Malkin was drafted, there were concerns because he suffered concussions playing in Russia.  As far as I know, he has never had a concussion in the NHL. 

It’s a crapshoot.  Everyone in the NHL is a hit away from their career ending (Pronger is the best example of this.  Age had nothing to do with him getting a stick in the eye), but there is also the possibility that a few years from now, concussions are reduced by new equipment.  Maybe the NHL will finally wise up and get rid of the hard elbow and shoulder caps.

Posted by pens fan in baltimore on 08/21/12 at 09:23 PM ET

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any question as to whether Crosby would choose to retire due to chronic concussion issues and turn down tens of millions of dollars guaranteed to him by his new contract is a dumb one.  he wouldnt, because he’ll need that money for medical bills and as comfortable a lifestyle as possible til the day he dies.  think Marc Savard here.

my only point earlier is that such a risk matters to other owners who would likely have to step in and help the Penguins pay for the contract in the form of revenue sharing.  Pittsburgh wont be bringing in a whole lot of money if Crosby is finished (sure as hell wasnt before = 2 time bankruptcy Champs).  but back then the franchise wasn’t on the hook to pay a guy $100M+ over the course of a decade.

so yeah, it matters to more than just the Penguins.

Posted by ryan on 08/21/12 at 11:34 PM ET

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8.7 million vs 3.9 million due each year if they get knocked out with injury’s. Which would you want if that player never plays again?

Posted by YYZerman from Detroit, Michigan on 08/21/12 at 04:34 PM ET

I know that I’d rather a 34 year old Crosby at $9 than a 40 year old Franzen at $4 if they both do play.

I also know that even if he’s not playing, Crosby’s still got significant value in terms of marketing a business, and that Franzen is a weirdo with a high-pitched voice who looks a lot like the unholy progeny of Santa Claus and Raffi Torres. While it’s not outside the realm of possibility some genius would make someone like that salable in some form, I wouldn’t bet $40 million on it.

Should also point out that I’ve heard this “one hit away from his career ending due to concussions” business before. In 2004. In reference to Malkin.

Posted by larry from pitt on 08/22/12 at 02:16 AM ET

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Ryan, you know so little from your comments about the Pens bankruptcies that it isn’t worth to delve into.  The Pens are on the best financial footing they have been in their history.  Their arena deal gives them most of the money from events there.  It would take multiple contract failures on Crosby like deals for the Pens to be in the same trouble as they were before.  Very few teams in the league could take that kind of hit though.

Posted by pens fan in baltimore on 08/22/12 at 02:11 PM ET

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Paul Kukla founded Kukla’s Korner in 2005 and the site has since become the must-read site on the ‘net for all the latest happenings around the NHL.

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