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Afternoon Line

“I met with Danny last week and informed him of our decision to use a compliance buy out on his contract. This was a very difficult decision for us to make as Danny has been a very good player for us over the past six years. Danny came to our organization as a free agent in July of 2007 and has been a tremendous player, person and role model in all aspects and for that we thank him. We wish him continued success and best wishes in any future endeavors.”

-Flyers GM Paul Holmgren on Danny Briere.  More at the Flyers website.

Filed in: NHL Teams, Philadelphia Flyers, | KK Hockey | Permalink
  Tags: danny+briere, paul+holmgren

Comments

Primis's avatar

Dear Ken Holland,

No.  Please?  Just, no.

Sincerely, Red Wings fans everywhere…

Posted by Primis on 06/20/13 at 01:03 PM ET

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Primis, the guys is money during the playoffs.  Personally, I would not mind seeing him on the pens if the price was right.  Somewhere around 3-4 million sounds about right.

Posted by gretzky_to_lemieux on 06/20/13 at 01:05 PM ET

Vladimir16's avatar

Dear Ken Holland,
No.  Please?  Just, no.
Sincerely, Red Wings fans everywhere…
Posted by Primis on 06/20/13 at 01:03 PM ET

Yeah, but he’s got the size we need….............BAAAWAWAHAHAHAHAAAAA…..
I’m sure, as we speak, ‘ol Tick Tock is trying to convince Uncle Mike that Briere is just the top forward we need to get us over the hump.

Posted by Vladimir16 from Grand River Valley on 06/20/13 at 01:05 PM ET

Primis's avatar

Primis, the guys is money during the playoffs.  Personally, I would not mind seeing him on the pens if the price was right.  Somewhere around 3-4 million sounds about right.

Posted by gretzky_to_lemieux on 06/20/13 at 01:05 PM ET

If DET wants to gamble on forwards, they have young forwards waiting for a turn first.  They are are a far better gamble.

I’ll take the young Calder Cup MVP with a chip on his shoulder over Briere, thanks.

Posted by Primis on 06/20/13 at 01:09 PM ET

Heaton's avatar

Buy-out Samuelsson and Bertuzzi, don’t re-sign Cleary.  Bring in Tatar, Nyquist and Briere?  Yes please.

Posted by Heaton on 06/20/13 at 01:15 PM ET

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I’ll take the young Calder Cup MVP with a chip on his shoulder over Briere, thanks.

Great, but that’s completely irrelevant.  Young Calder Cup MVP with a chip on his shoulder is going to be a Red Wing next year PLUS they’re still looking for another forward.

Not saying Briere is the answer, I can’t stand him, but it’s not going to be a situation of Tatar vs any of the bigger name UFA forwards the Wings might be considering.

Posted by Garth on 06/20/13 at 01:18 PM ET

SK77's avatar

General consensus around these parts is Holland needs to resign Brunner – but general consensus is now scoffing at a more established and productive player like Briere. Discuss.

Posted by SK77 on 06/20/13 at 01:27 PM ET

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Not sure why such hate for Briere. The guy is a point per game in the playoffs.
He is fearless for his size. If he comes at a reasonable price, he could very well be a replacement for Fil.
And by the way, I have a feeling Brunner is not resigning. I hope I’m wrong.

Posted by George0211 on 06/20/13 at 01:41 PM ET

henrymalredo's avatar

I wouldn’t mind the Wings taking a look at Briere for the right price.  Sure he isn’t the big winger that everyone is clamoring for and the last two years have been rough, but he’s money in the playoffs and he’s got a lot of talent.  He’s no more of a gamble then Bickell or Clarkson.

Posted by henrymalredo from Lansing on 06/20/13 at 01:51 PM ET

Vladimir16's avatar

General consensus around these parts is Holland needs to resign Brunner – but general consensus is now scoffing at a more established and productive player like Briere. Discuss.
Posted by some kid on 06/20/13 at 01:27 PM ET

5’10” and 180#
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ The Wings have enough of that.

Posted by Vladimir16 from Grand River Valley on 06/20/13 at 01:54 PM ET

Primis's avatar

Great, but that’s completely irrelevant.  Young Calder Cup MVP with a chip on his shoulder is going to be a Red Wing next year PLUS they’re still looking for another forward.

Not saying Briere is the answer, I can’t stand him, but it’s not going to be a situation of Tatar vs any of the bigger name UFA forwards the Wings might be considering.

Posted by Garth on 06/20/13 at 01:18 PM ET

It isn’t irrelevant.  Signing Briere to a Top Six spot means a younger guy NOT getting that spot.  You think Tatar will be effective on the 4th line?

If it were signing a solid, true stud scoring winger it’d maybe be justifiable.  Briere is not any of those at this point.  He’s aging, broken, and in decline.  He’s another Samuelsson or Bertuzzi, the exact types of guys DET is wanting to buy out themselves.  It’d make no sense at all to bring him in.

And that’s even ignoring then the cries for a power forward with size that Briere isn’t.which is a whole other strike on its own.

General consensus around these parts is Holland needs to resign Brunner – but general consensus is now scoffing at a more established and productive player like Briere. Discuss.

Posted by some kid on 06/20/13 at 01:27 PM ET

Brunner is not broken all to hell.  Briere is.  There’s the discussion.  Briere’s good days are past him, he has concussion issues as WELL as now being apparently prone to lots of other injuries (such is the life of a small forward trying to play a bigger game late in the career).  His offensive production is in decline.

Philly is buying out Briere for a reason, and considering their glut of overpaid d-men they need to thin out first, it’s absolutely *damning* for Briere’s case that he’s the first to go.

Posted by Primis on 06/20/13 at 01:58 PM ET

Heaton's avatar

The Wings need scoring and skill, I don’t care how small they are.  Dustin Penner is bigger than Briere, but Briere would have a much bigger impact.

I think given the option of 6 years 36m for Horton or 3 years 15m for Briere, it’s a no brainer.

Posted by Heaton on 06/20/13 at 01:59 PM ET

phillyd's avatar

Philly is buying out Briere for a reason, and considering their glut of overpaid d-men they need to thin out first, it’s absolutely *damning* for Briere’s case that he’s the first to go.

Posted by Primis on 06/20/13 at 01:58 PM ET

Briere’s being bought out because they don’t really have a line to put him on with their forward and at the cap hit, they’d be better off putting that money somewhere else (it shouldn’t got to Streit, but that’s a whole ‘nother thread).

Posted by phillyd from Southern New Jersey on 06/20/13 at 02:02 PM ET

Hootinani's avatar

I am on the fence regarding Briere.  He has racked up alot of hard miles over the years, but he goes to the net hard, which is something the Wings do not have, and absolutely need.  He’s pretty versatile as well, but one bump to the noggin could erase all of those positives in a hurry, especially on a long term deal.

Posted by Hootinani on 06/20/13 at 02:11 PM ET

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Discuss.

Brunner had better numbers in the regular season with Detroit and after hitting a wall, he got his game back and played very well in the playoffs.

Briere is being bought a lesser team than the Red Wings because they weren’t happy with his play.

Signing Briere to a Top Six spot means a younger guy NOT getting that spot.

How so?

Datsyuk, Abdelkader, Franzen, Zetterberg, Tatar.  That’s five top-six forwards, magically leaving room for one more, be it Briere, Clarkson, Horton, Bickell, Penner, etc.

I am in no way advocating Briere, just saying that even with Tatar in the top six there’s still room for that UFA signing everyone wants.  The only way Tatar isn’t in the top six is if Brunner moves up to the second line because they want Tatar playing with Andersson and Nyquist.

You think Tatar will be effective on the 4th line?

Irrelevant because he won’t be there.  The Wings already have too many fourth liners as it is.

The “top nine” should be set, with the exception of that elusive UFA power forward the Wings want (or Cleary, if Holland is stupider than I hope he is).

Philly is buying out Briere for a reason, and considering their glut of overpaid d-men they need to thin out first, it’s absolutely *damning* for Briere’s case that he’s the first to go.

Absolutely agree.

Posted by Garth on 06/20/13 at 02:14 PM ET

Primis's avatar

Briere’s being bought out because they don’t really have a line to put him on with their forward and at the cap hit, they’d be better off putting that money somewhere else (it shouldn’t got to Streit, but that’s a whole ‘nother thread).

Posted by phillyd from Southern New Jersey on 06/20/13 at 02:02 PM ET

Philly has NINE NHL defensemen currently according to Capgeek.  Of those nine, 5 are on the hook for $4m/yr or over, and 7 for $3m/yr or more.  That kinda’ dwarfs PHI’s forwards situation.  The cap problem *exists* because of all those d-men.

If Philly wanted to cut cap space, they could easily knock out a dman or two and STILL have a situation at the position.

That they chose to axe Briere first means the Flyers saw very little value to Briere, either in keeping or trying to trade him.  To be honest, I figured Timonen would be the first to go.

Posted by Primis on 06/20/13 at 02:15 PM ET

Primis's avatar

Datsyuk, Abdelkader, Franzen, Zetterberg, Tatar.  That’s five top-six forwards, magically leaving room for one more, be it Briere, Clarkson, Horton, Bickell, Penner, etc.

Posted by Garth on 06/20/13 at 02:14 PM ET

You somehow forgot Nyquist, and then Brunner if he re-ups.  That makes that 5 you listed now 7, which means one man is already odd-man out even before another UFA is signed.

Posted by Primis on 06/20/13 at 02:17 PM ET

Avatar

You somehow forgot Nyquist, and then Brunner if he re-ups.  That makes that 5 you listed now 7, which means one man is already odd-man out even before another UFA is signed.

Posted by Primis on 06/20/13 at 02:17 PM ET

My guess is that they will start the season with that Anderson/Nyquist/Brunner line intact. Assuming of course Brunner re-signs.

Posted by George0211 on 06/20/13 at 02:19 PM ET

Primis's avatar

By the way, as an aside Briere has been a fantastic undersized player with a ridiculous compete level.  Been enjoying him since back when he was in PHX.

He’s old though folks.  Any team adding him is adding a secondary or even tertiary piece that has injury issues, not a primary piece.  Any team that adds him will be doing so because they don’t have someone younger to fill that role.  He’s supporting cast now guys…

Posted by Primis on 06/20/13 at 02:23 PM ET

Avatar

You somehow forgot Nyquist, and then Brunner if he re-ups.

No I didn’t.  Brunner, Nyquist and Andersson are the third line.

Posted by Garth on 06/20/13 at 02:23 PM ET

Primis's avatar

My guess is that they will start the season with that Anderson/Nyquist/Brunner line intact. Assuming of course Brunner re-signs.

Posted by George0211 on 06/20/13 at 02:19 PM ET

Nyquist needs Top Six time, as probably does Tatar.  Thus the problem.  Those guys are Top Six guys, the Wings need their scoring, and they’re not going to score enough playing in the Bottom Six to help the team.  If they let Fil walk, Nyquist or Brunner aren’t bad options as #2 C IMO.

I would hope Ken and Mike learned their lesson this last season about sometimes actually letting kids play in important situations.  They can be in over their heads (Lashoff), but if they never are they’ll never have a chance or reason to swim and you’ll never know if they can.

Posted by Primis on 06/20/13 at 02:28 PM ET

Avatar

Nyquist needs Top Six time, as probably does Tatar.

What are you talking about?  Everyone was over the moon about Detroit’s third line, why would they break that up?  They’re trying to get back to the place they used to be where there wasn’t such an obvious line between the top six and the bottom six.  Having a third line like Anderson, Nyquist, Brunner gets them closer to being able to simply roll four lines like they used to.

If they let Fil walk, Nyquist or Brunner aren’t bad options as #2 C IMO.

They have a #2 centre.  His name is Henrik Sometingorother.  Stocking up the top six means they hopefully won’t have to rely on putting Datsyuk and Zetterberg together.

Posted by Garth on 06/20/13 at 02:32 PM ET

topshelf14's avatar

I think acquiring a player like Michael Ryder would be an excellent addition to Zetterberg’s wing.  He’s been making 3.5 mil, and I think he would sign for something closer to 4 mil.

Posted by topshelf14 from Detroit, MI on 06/20/13 at 02:38 PM ET

Primis's avatar

They have a #2 centre.  His name is Henrik Sometingorother.  Stocking up the top six means they hopefully won’t have to rely on putting Datsyuk and Zetterberg together.

Posted by Garth on 06/20/13 at 02:32 PM ET

All these years later and people still thinking breaking them up is a good idea.  It never really works well (even when DET had better top six personnel), but maybe THIS time it finally will?

It’s time to just shelve that argument and admit the sum of them together is far more valuable than what they can do separated.  Their best successes come together, their biggest struggles come from them being apart.  DET can have a solid top line, or still tinker and have two flaky top lines.  I’d prefer the former.

Posted by Primis on 06/20/13 at 02:40 PM ET

Avatar

I am on the fence regarding Briere.  He has racked up alot of hard miles over the years

Hootinani

The most recent seasons he has racked up a lot of emotional miles.

Divorce, then sudden passing of his mother at the start of this season
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/hockey/nhl/flyers/story/2012-09-08/danny-briere-mother/57695718/1

I think most expected a less than normal season from him.  I can’t recall many sub-par playoffs from him.

Personally he was great to our youth hockey teams, even buying tickets to his own jersey raffle.

He was always accessible to our kids, as long as he wasn’t being distracted from watching his own kids play.  Every hockey community needs more guys like that.

I do beleive he has something left in the tank for the right team/

Posted by Cubanpuckstopper on 06/20/13 at 02:44 PM ET

Avatar

All these years later and people still thinking breaking them up is a good idea.

All these years later the Wings actually seem serious about having six top-six worthy forwards in their top-six.

DET can have a solid top line, or still tinker and have two flaky top lines.

Jesus, why are you so defeatist?

It’s not possible to have two top six lines?  Are you out of your mind?

Posted by Garth on 06/20/13 at 02:45 PM ET

Avatar

As far as the Flyers go. 

This franchise is a basket case.

Bryz is the franchise guy, Bobs is a castoff.

No Bryz isn’t they guy.

Mason is the guy.

No, we want Bernier.

We want BAckstrom

We want Smith.

No we will go with Mason, and bring back Emery.

Maddening pattern of going nowhere.

Proof of this, six former flyers rostered on CHI-Bos in the finals.  Does anyother team come close to funding the finalists?

Posted by Cubanpuckstopper on 06/20/13 at 02:54 PM ET

Primis's avatar

Jesus, why are you so defeatist?

It’s not possible to have two top six lines?  Are you out of your mind?

Posted by Garth on 06/20/13 at 02:45 PM ET

I think they can with Z and Pavel playing together.

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Abdelkader
Brunner-Nyquist-Franzen

I don’t think they can with Z and Pavel split up.  They don’t have the people to do it, plain and simple.  And I don’t believe anyone readily on the market right now is capable of making that possible either (not Ryder or Dupuis or Ribiero or whoever.  I maaaayyy be swayed yet on Clarkson, still unsure though).

We both agree Franzen is probably a 2nd line scorer, and he needs someone still to facilitate him scoring (and Fil wasn’t it, obviously).  The best way to make that happen is to pair Pavel and Z on the 1st with a mucker or piano mover like Abby, and give Franzen some dynamic players on the 2nd unit (THIS MEANS NO DAN CLEARY, DO YOU HEAR ME KEN AND MIKE?!).

If you think I’m defeatist simply because I don’t forsee this white knight stud scoring winger riding in that everyone wants and covets well, then…. yeah, I guess I’m defeatist.  The market is the market, we can’t create guys we want to be available.  I think they’re gonna’ have to make do with what they have at forward, and use them effectively.

Gone are the days of scoring 3rd and 4th lines.  We can’t have a 3rd or 4th line with Z, Pavel, and Brett Hull anymore in the bottom six.  The cap just won’t allow for it, at least not at this lower ceiling number.  Maybe in the future again.

Posted by Primis on 06/20/13 at 02:57 PM ET

Primis's avatar

Proof of this, six former flyers rostered on CHI-Bos in the finals.  Does anyother team come close to funding the finalists?

Posted by Cubanpuckstopper on 06/20/13 at 02:54 PM ET

And then Carter and Richards winning rings last year, yeah.  Philly is a mess.  They still seem to live in the pre-Cap era for some reason, where you could stock up on anyone and chemistry wasn’t as big a concern.

Probably not the best time to remind that the Flyers gave up on Patrick Sharp too.

Posted by Primis on 06/20/13 at 03:01 PM ET

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I don’t think they can with Z and Pavel split up.  They don’t have the people to do it, plain and simple.

Of course they do.

Datsyuk-Abdelkader-Franzen
Zetterberg-Tatar/Nyquist/Brunner-UFA

How is that worse than the top two that you listed?

If you think I’m defeatist simply because I don’t forsee this white knight stud scoring winger riding in that everyone wants and covets well, then…. yeah, I guess I’m defeatist.

No, I think you’re defeatist because you refuse to believe that the Wings can win unless they pair Datsyuk and Zetterberg together, yet we know from five years of experience that the Wings haven’t won despite eventually putting Datsyuk and Zetterberg together EVERY SINGLE YEAR since 2008.

We know from experience that if a team figures out how to neutralize a line with Zetterberg and Datsyuk together then the Wings are f*cked because their second line is so far below their first.

Building two lines around Datsyuk and Zetterberg with actual top six wingers (instead of Cleary and f*cking Filppula) PLUS having a solid third line of Andersson-Nyquist-Brunner/Tatar means that if one line gets neutralized then there are still TWO threatening lines to deal with.

Gone are the days of scoring 3rd and 4th lines.

Sure, if you want to ignore the fact that we had a scoring 3rd line this year.

The cap just won’t allow for it, at least not at this lower ceiling number.  Maybe in the future again.

Are you kidding me?  Even if they overpay Brunner there is still PLENTY of room to sign a top-six forward, and in fact to overpay for one.

Posted by Garth on 06/20/13 at 03:17 PM ET

Hootinani's avatar

Posted by Cubanpuckstopper on 06/20/13 at 02:44 PM ET

I wouldn’t question what kind of guy he is, just not sure of his overall health.  But he has always impressed me with his ability to make plays around the net, especially for being a smallish player.  Good hands in tight, alot of dirty, right on the doorstep type goals.

Posted by Hootinani on 06/20/13 at 03:18 PM ET

bezukov's avatar

He’s another Samuelsson or Bertuzzi, the exact types of guys DET is wanting to buy out themselves.

I usually agree with you Primis, but I can’t here.  Briere would be a significant upgrade to those two.  I’d much rather see Bickell/Horton/Clarkson get signed with DET, but as far as “Ken Holland retreads” go, Briere would be one of his better ones. 

I also question if Tatar and Nyquist are top six material at this point in their career.  Garth’s point about our third line is a good one IMO.  I wouldn’t rush to break up a good thing.

Posted by bezukov from the kids are alright. on 06/20/13 at 03:22 PM ET

SYF's avatar

Off topic.  Hey, Boss.  Glad to see you’re back in the saddle once more.

Posted by SYF from Zata's Epic Viking Beard on 06/20/13 at 03:48 PM ET

MOWingsfan19's avatar

I also question if Tatar and Nyquist are top six material at this point in their career.  Garth’s point about our third line is a good one IMO.  I wouldn’t rush to break up a good thing.

If we can configure 2 solid 1 & 2 lines… these kids will create match up headaches for a lot of teams looking to neutralize 1 & 2.
Pav n Z can be paired up or split up depending on who or IF we add that mythical top 6 scoring winger.

Posted by MOWingsfan19 from I really like our team on 06/20/13 at 03:59 PM ET

Ajax19's avatar

Brier isn’t the answer for the Wings.

Based on what we have now the lines should look something like:

Abdelkader - Datsyuk - ????? (UFA)
Franzen - Zetterberg - ????  (Brunner or UFA)
Nyquist - Andersson - Tatar
Insert any one of Eaves, Emmerton, Miller, Tootoo, Helm (if ever healthy) etc. here

Even if Brunner does command around $3 million a year or thereabouts, the Wings still have plenty of money and cap space to go out and get a “top six” forward to fill out their first line.  Maybe it’s Ryder, Bickell, Penner, Clarkson, Horton or whoever, but the money is there.

If Nyquist-Andersson-Tatar have as good chemistry as they did in the NHL that’s a very effective third line and should be able to score.  (Note that the Boston’s 3rd line:  Kelly-Seguin-Paille is scoring at a nice clip for more evidence of scoring 3rd lines.)  If Nyquist or Tatar start to really catch on, then you can move them up, move Brunner or Franzen down, or whatever.  That forward combination gives you a lot of flexbility on your top three lines, gives you different powerplays to work on.  I think it’d be a good crop.

The way forward seems quite simple to me.  The Wings have the cash and a roster spot. It’s just a matter of finding the right player, for the right price who actually wants to play for the Wings.  Obviously, there are no guarantees, but there are quite a few options.

Posted by Ajax19 on 06/20/13 at 03:59 PM ET

Nathan's avatar

If the price is right and he wants to play here, you can’t say no. He’s still a very talented player and has a solid track record of performing in the playoffs.

Posted by Nathan from the scoresheet! on 06/21/13 at 09:04 AM ET

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Paul Kukla founded Kukla’s Korner in 2005 and the site has since become the must-read site on the ‘net for all the latest happenings around the NHL.

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