Kukla's Korner

Abel to Yzerman

What Happened Kenny?

This is just a taste.  I went to bed the minute the deadline passed. It was 2301 CVST (Carl Vinson Standard Time) and I was highly, highly pissed.  I believe this was a failure on an epic scale.  It was either Okie or JJ who said repeatedly last night, “Opportunity is a fickle bitch.”  Exactly.  And it’s been my experience that once you start turning down opportunities they seldom come back the next night to see if you’ve changed your mind or come to your senses. They move on to the next potential customer in Nashville or out in Vancouver.

I’m going to try to take a much harder look later in the day (your early morning), but for now I’ll say this:  Ken Holland had a chance to improve this team yesterday and didn’t do it.  The company men will agree with his inactivity. 

I think it was negligence.

Nick Lidstrom is going to retire. You have millions to spend.  You have a team that is unbeatable at home (with Datsyuk, anyway).  You have…opportunity.  So you sit on your hands because the prices are too high?  Is that it?  We’re going to let our allegiance to the potential of a player like Nyquist stop us from acquiring a piece that could bring us a Stanley Cup?  Are you fuching kidding me, Kenny? 

Two 4th rounders put Pahlsson in Vancouver.  Great, gritty defensive forward.  A guy teams pick up for the playoffs. Not us, though.  Too steep.

Gaustad?  Want to trivialize that pickup? Go ahead.  I’ll remind you that you scoffed when we face Nashville in the playoffs.  When Zetterberg loses a faceoff to him in our zone with 15 seconds to play and Weber’s got it tee’d up for the game winner, go ahead and tell me what that guy would have been worth in February Kenny.

Move of the day is a reach around for Mike Commodore.  And the Diggers fell all over themselves talking about it.  For two hours the Wings ignored their playoff lineup and the Diggers tip-tapped away at how generous Kenny Holland is, how compassionate he must be to let the guy go down to Stevie Y in TB.  Not a questioning word from one of them as to why the Detroit By God Red Wings did nothing to improve themselves on a deadline day that was worse than Cory Cross because we had a helluva lot more money throw around.

I don’t want to hear the excuses, either.  If you’re the “best GM in the business”, you get by the obstacles and make something happen.  Mediocre GMs do nothing. Excellence surprises people and makes us shake our heads in wonder.  Not since Hossa have you done that.

Tick Tock?  You blew it. You’ve done some great things for us in the past but yesterday?  You absolutely blew it.

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HockeytownOverhaul's avatar

you aren’t fuching lyin’ Master Chief, you aren’t fuching lyin’

Posted by HockeytownOverhaul on 02/28/12 at 02:54 AM ET

The Hurricane's avatar

AB-SO-FRIGGIN RIGHT ON,  Chief!

Posted by The Hurricane on 02/28/12 at 03:06 AM ET

HockeytownOverhaul's avatar

Just throwing this out there.  These are the names that I see us having in 3 years, all in the system or on the current roster, NO UFA/RFA’s.  Only Wings and Griffins (with two exceptions that Hakan himself as vouched for) You’ll notice someone’s got to go between now and then.  Now would’ve, SHOULD’VE, been the time to pull the trigger on something, while we have the great players we have, e.i. a certain great player and a goaltender having an all-star year or one of the most capable backups we’ve seen this side of Hasek/Ozzie and I’m sure that was an out of body experience for Ozzie. 

The whole “we can’t afford it” line just doesnt jive..

Pav-Franzen-Zetterberg
Flip-Hudler-Nyquist
Abby-Helm-Miller
Mursak-Emmerton-Tatar

Andersson-Brunnstrom-Callahan
Pulkkinen-Jarnkrok(Hakan has said both should be able to go straight to NHL coming over)-Coetzee

I’ve left Eaves off for now.

As you can see… these are all guys who will be out of options or subject to waivers, i.e. losing them for nothing a la Kyle Quincey. (again with the exceptions of Pulk and Jarnkrok, but we wont keep them over there if they’re ready for NHL)  You’re telling me that we’re better off holding onto every one of those and not plugging any holes we have now for a legit run, while we’re having a stellar year at home.  No help to kick start us on the road? No PP help? No anything huh?  Cause we need all those picks and we don’t ahve any “spare” prospects?  And honestly in 4 years you’re going to have to add guys like Jurco, Sheahan, Tvrdon, Aubry…

Simple math, we’re not keeping all those players.  I’d have rather moved 1 or 2 of them or mixed with a pick or two and picked up a useful piece, and yes, there were useful pieces (Gaustad, Pahlsson) while we’re positioned perfectly for a Cup run…. Simple math that KH blew it.

Posted by HockeytownOverhaul on 02/28/12 at 03:17 AM ET

Avatar

It never ceases to amaze me how hard core Red Wing fans continue to find something to complain about even thought the team sits in first place with 19 regular season games to play.

We have to trust that Kenny Holland would have made a deal if it really would have helped the team without sacrificing its future structure. We weren’t privy to those phone calls he made or received. We don’t know how the other GMs tried to screw him. Just because Vancouver gave up a pair of 4th rounders for Paulsson doesn’t mean that was the deal offered up to Holland.

Lets wait and see what happens in the playoffs before we ream Holland a 2nd brown eye.

He’s doing everything he can to find a defencive partner that makes Ericsson worth that $3.25 mil. contract he got ... and thats no small task. Here’s hoping Brendan Smith is the answer.

Posted by Hockeytown Wax from W.B. on 02/28/12 at 03:21 AM ET

Chet's avatar

all you guys who were sweating over no moves today make it sound like gaustad or moen or pahlsson are the second coming. what does that make our guys, chopped liver?

short of a legit top six forward/gamebreaker, there was no reason to give up something real like a pick or a prospect for a rental checking liner. it’s just a nonsense proposition.

Posted by Chet from twitter: thegansen on 02/28/12 at 03:23 AM ET

Alzy's avatar

I guess I may as well do a re-post.

Well, sitting here, 10 hours after the deadline, I don’t think I’m angry any longer, but I guess to use the popular word, frustrated. West, I agree with what you said about how we used to be a team that overbuilds to win every year, does everything to win Lord Stanley every year, etc. But in this particular scenario, for this specific deadline, I don’t Tick Tock could do much more than he did. The simple fact was, there were only (I guess including Buffalo, although they didn’t deal Roy) six teams out of 30 that were true sellers. Nash likely was never in the cards, I think we all know that. So then it became about having to trade (more than likely) one of our better roster guys (Filppula is the one who comes to mind) + our 2 of our top 4 prospects+ our first rounder in 2013 to get a guy like Brown, Ryan, Roy etc. And I personally think that’s too steep a price. If there had been more teams who were definitely out of it (the Fuchs are biggest one who come to mind. Remember in January when I think Perry was the only guy deemed untouchable? That team seemed on the verge of imploding, but then they went on that fuching run). But anyways (sorry for rambling), I think if there had been more teams who were definite “sellers” we may have been able to land that top six power forward we coveted for a more reasonable bounty.

However, the thing that’s incredibly frustrating is just knowing that arguably our three main competitors for the Western Conference title all improved. I don’t think any of them improved by leaps and bounds, or even enough to make me think any of DET, VAN, SJ and NSH are huge favourites over the others. But just the knowledge that for the 4th deadline in a row, we chose to stand pat, knowing what’s happened the previous years (2009 obviously being an exception considering the team we were icing at the time), it just seemed like with all that cap space, we were finally going to see a Brad Stuart type addition.

Do I think this Detroit Red Wings team as is can win the Stanley Cup this spring? Yes I do. They have shown on several occasions this season just how good they can be, and just how resilient they can be. But this isn’t 2008, when the team looked pretty damn strong all year. I’ve had that “we’re gonna win this thing” feeling several times, but I’ve also thought another early exit was coming too.

There’s 19 games left in the regular season. It likely won’t make too big a dent statistically as far as their rankings league wide go, but if they can get back to operating a 25% PP and 90% PK (and the PK actually over the past 8 games has been pretty damn good, 25 of 26 killed for a 96% kill rate), I would feel pretty good heading into the playoffs.

But as I said earlier today, I hate relying on “IFs”.

Just because Vancouver gave up a pair of 4th rounders for Paulsson doesn’t mean that was the deal offered up to Holland.

This actually is a pretty good point on Pahlsson. We all thought Nash was a never-gonna-happen because of the divisional rival aspect, and it could have played just as big a part here. For Gaustad though, it was like what Tick Tock said, we simply didn’t have the asset Nashville did.

Posted by Alzy from Cambridge, Ontario, Canada on 02/28/12 at 03:27 AM ET

NickLidstrom's avatar

There was no offer out there. Selanne wasn’t available. Doan wasn’t available. Smyth wasn’t available. How many players moved at the deadline do you wish the Wings would have acquired? Paul Gaustad? Get rid of pieces for a rental player on pace for 9 goals, who plays 15 minutes a night? Sami Pahlsson? With 2 goals on the year?You would want to get rid of 2 draft picks and a prospect for him?

The Wings made their deal when they got Quincey, a young, strong, talented player who was a top 2 dman on the Avs. And he is not a rental.

It wasn’t worth paying the price for the type of players available today. The pool was so thin that it even made names like Paul Gaustad and Sami Pahlsson look attractive.

We’ll see who’s complaining when the Wings sign Parise and/or Suter this summer.

Posted by NickLidstrom from a Higher Ground on 02/28/12 at 03:37 AM ET

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If the Avs, Bolts and Red Wings had all just decided to wait another four days to do their Quincey - Downie dance, just for the sake of drama, we’d probably be talking about how Holland actually had a good deadline.

But I guess if you don’t make the move within two hours of the cutoff, it doesn’t count.

Posted by Sven22 from Grand Rapids on 02/28/12 at 03:50 AM ET

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I’m fine with Holland not giving up picks for a checking line forward.  The Wings are deep and ready for a long cup run.

Posted by JHVRay on 02/28/12 at 03:58 AM ET

Alzy's avatar

On another topic though:

Have any of you bitches ever bought a jersey from Ice Jerseys? I had a look earlier and it seems like good stuff. Plus it would be nice to help out the Emporer. My main concern is the sizing of the lettering. I believe George has called it putting 10 point font on a 12 point canvas. I’ve noticed a lot of retailers do this, so I’d like to avoid that.

The player I want to get is James Tiberius Motherfuching Howard btw.

Posted by Alzy from Cambridge, Ontario, Canada on 02/28/12 at 04:01 AM ET

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How many guys traded this month would have helped Wings? Carter, Gaustad, Quincey. Maybe Pahlsson.
CBJ players were probably out of reach.Gaustad cost Nashville 1st rounder, to top that, Wings would have had to give up one of their best prospects (Jurco, Pulkkinen,...) and some pick. they “only” got the best defensman on the market.

There were no top six forwards in the play except for Carter and Nash. Wings have too many bottom six, Gaustad could have helped, but it wasn’t pressing need.

Posted by Davor on 02/28/12 at 04:05 AM ET

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I agree with everyone but also disagree with everyone ...... But I think we can all agree with this… I am very excited about this upcoming off season (although I will cry for 5 days if Lidstrom retires), all the money we may have (depending on Lidstrom and Stuart) and having the main part of our team locked up.  Parise, Suter, Weber all possibly on the market, Nash on the trading block, and all of the other possibilities makes my head spin thinking of all the things that could happen.  So I’m not going to rag on Kenny now for what he did (or did not) do on trade deadline, but if nothing big happens on July 1st I will be very very disappointed.

Posted by Dru from Canada on 02/28/12 at 04:49 AM ET

DrewBehr's avatar

“The Wings made their deal when they got Quincey, a young, strong, talented player who was a top 2 dman on the Avs. And he is not a rental.”

Exactly. Now can everyone shut the hell up about Holland not getting Gaustad or Pahlsson? Neither player was going to put us over the top, and they certainly weren’t worth giving up what other teams paid to get.

Nashville made their moves because they are trying to do everything possible to entice Suter and/or Weber to hang around. If the Wings were risking losing Zetterberg and/or Datsyuk, I’m sure we’d do the same… but because of Holland not trading away these top draft picks for rentals year after year, we won’t find ourselves in that sort of situation, period.

Gaustad?  Want to trivialize that pickup? Go ahead… When Zetterberg loses a faceoff to him…

We all know Datsyuk would be taking the faceoff in that situation.

Posted by DrewBehr from The Mitten on 02/28/12 at 05:10 AM ET

Chet's avatar

Alzy, stay away from ice jerseys. They don’t stand behind their stuff and have terrible cust service. Was not at all happy w/ them and felt ripped off when I had to return a wrong sized product. I’d never use them again.

Posted by Chet from twitter: thegansen on 02/28/12 at 06:22 AM ET

Itrusteddrrahmani's avatar

C’mon Chief. We just won 23 games at home.  We’re sitting pretty in second place.  We were not willing to pay ridiculous prices for medicore players and I think that totally makes sense.  A first rounder for Gaustad? Why give that up when we don’t need him.  Sure we got cap space, but that doesn’t mean you have to spend it.  No need to fix what ain’t broken, and this team is far from broken.  This way the chemistry is not messed up, we still have the best team in the league, and this off season after a parade down Woodward, we’re going to have all sorts of money to reload with.

Posted by Itrusteddrrahmani from Nyc by way of A2 on 02/28/12 at 07:28 AM ET

Guilherme's avatar

“The Wings made their deal when they got Quincey, a young, strong, talented player who was a top 2 dman on the Avs. And he is not a rental.”

We KNOW the Wings had a deal in Quincey.

But how does it help the team’s biggest issues (power-play, inconsistent scoring, being pushed around like ragdolls)?

Quincey improves what already was the best thing about this team, but Holland did nothing to solve the real problems.

Posted by Guilherme from Brazsil on 02/28/12 at 07:55 AM ET

Guilherme's avatar

We all know Datsyuk would be taking the faceoff in that situation.

And we all knew Franzén wouldn’t be on the ice with a minute left against the Canucks.

Wait…

Posted by Guilherme from Brazsil on 02/28/12 at 07:57 AM ET

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Some of the best moves to make are just staying put.  The genius of Holland is that he plays moneyball and makes sure he is paying close to the minimum reasonable value for every player.  This would include player/trade value.  His patience contributes to being able to do this.  The Red Wings value as a system helps sell it as well.

I’m afraid though that this salary cap thing is eventually going to catch up with us, unfortunately, and I am the opposite of those people who have always said stuff like, “the wings are too old, they won’t be able to compete anymore.”  The playing field with the cap is leveling way too much, and we will start losing some of our advantages.  Also, with the aid of info-tech, scouting is way easier.  No more Datsyuk and Zetterberg discoveries.  Everyone is known these days.

The way to stay successful in the future will be to develop talent better and do what Holland does and get players for less than they’re worth.  The latter is going to get harder though and become much more of a guessing game.  I kind of miss the old pre cap days, and this makes me hope baseball doesn’t ever impose one themselves.  I would have said that too back when the Tigers were what they were.  Higher fan support deserves better players, and I like there to be villains and underdogs.  The NFL is boring in that sense.  Quick: name the best NFL team of all time.  Can’t do it.

Posted by Hochs from Haikou, China on 02/28/12 at 08:24 AM ET

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I for one, usually piss and moan about Holland letting players go by….  Today I was bitching and moaning like all of you until about 4 pm when it finally sunk in….


There wasn’t much to be had today .....  Nash, heh forget that.  Crazy inflated prices for all.

Pahlsson wouldn’t have been available to the Wings for just 2 4th rounders…. Prices go up when the Wings come calling.

Gaustad….  To give up a 1st round pick for a guy with 17 points? Sure he’s good at faceoffs, one of the better in the league…. But not worth a 1st round pick, nor a 2nd rounder…. He’s 6ft 5 sure, but so what, not as if he’s some big bad enforcer or Keith Primeau reincarnate…..  He also has 0 goals, thats right ZERO goals in over 30 playoff games… 

Nashville thinks they did well yesterday?  HAHAHAHAA thats funny.  Kostitsyn could have been here, but Andrei is a moody sniffling cry baby who lives in the bottle and you never know what you’re getting from one night to the next.  No need in screwing up the chemistry with that idiot. You would think Poile would have learned about that with Radulov…  All they did was panic to try and make Suter and Weber think they were trying to win a Cup.  That team struggles to score as is and they didn’t help themselves. 

If we’re going to point fingers people, lets point them at the Wings, and blame them for whatever is going wrong right now, Mule floats, Zetterberg struggles with faceoffs and scoring goals, etc etc etc…  They have enough to make a run but they will have to WANT it….

Posted by Jim from Nashville on 02/28/12 at 09:06 AM ET

Primis's avatar

Gaustad?  Want to trivialize that pickup? Go ahead.  I’ll remind you that you scoffed when we face Nashville in the playoffs.  When Zetterberg loses a faceoff to him in our zone with 15 seconds to play and Weber’s got it tee’d up for the game winner, go ahead and tell me what that guy would have been worth in February Kenny.

That’s exactly what I said.  Not even so much that the Wings didn’t get him, but that NAS did.  That one hurts.  Gaustad will help them in the playoffs.  I hope to God we don’t see NAS then,because that series will come back to haunt us in some way…

Gaustad….  To give up a 1st round pick for a guy with 17 points? Sure he’s good at faceoffs, one of the better in the league…. But not worth a 1st round pick, nor a 2nd rounder…. He’s 6ft 5 sure, but so what, not as if he’s some big bad enforcer or Keith Primeau reincarnate…..  He also has 0 goals, thats right ZERO goals in over 30 playoff games…

Would that be anything like the 3rd pairing defenseman we just gave up a 1st for that has no playoff numbers?  I truly and honestly fail to see the difference between the two deals.  Kenny paid a 1st for Quincey (who now is already hurt even).

Amazing how when Kenny spends a 1st on a 3rd pairing d-man we let go for free on a waivers a few years ago, everyone’s cool with that.  But to bring in a bottom 6 forward that’s one of the better faceoff guys in the league and has some size and snarl… well then, that just doesn’t make sense?


This was a bad trade deadline.  I don’t know who the Wings could have gotten honestly.  What I *do* know is that their biggest rivals all made moves, they found moves to make.

It doesn’t sit well with me either, Master Chief.  Especially since Babcock’s already made it clear that several of these younger guys are not “his guys” and he’s never going to play them anyways.

The hand is now forced.  Kenny has to be huge in the offseason, or else we really are probably looking at the end…

Posted by Primis on 02/28/12 at 09:20 AM ET

Jeff  OKWingnut's avatar

I’m totally with the Chief on this one.  I’ll stand by what I said yesterday:

Holland gets a “F” today, as in fuched up royally.

I don’t rant much, but this was a monumental screw-up.

The greatest NHL player of a generation may not be around next season.  Cap space to burn.  Two goalies playing lights out.  Top 6 playing like shit.  PP that desperately needs help.

And nothing?  Really?

Opportunity is a fickle bitch, and I think DET wasted one here.

Posted by Jeff OKWingnut from Quest for 12 on 02/27/12 at 04:55 PM ET

Posted by Jeff OKWingnut from Quest for 12 on 02/28/12 at 09:37 AM ET

monkey's avatar

February got started late.  Must be global warming.  *#$%@& season shift and shit.

Posted by monkey from Praha, Česká republika on 02/28/12 at 09:43 AM ET

dougie's avatar

Well, what’s done is done. Or, more accurately, what’s not done is not done.

Ken Holland plays 3 dimensional chess. We play checkers. Chinese checkers. If someone’s idea of running a hockey team is chasing and overpaying for the lack of talent on the block yesterday, I just don’t know what to say to you.

Sure, I have serious concerns about this years team hoisting the Cup. But stranger things have happened.

As in “Ladies and Gentlemen, YOUR Stanley Cup champion Carolina Hurricanes.”

In Kenny I still trust.

Posted by dougie on 02/28/12 at 09:59 AM ET

Nathan's avatar

Posted by Hockeytown Wax from W.B. on 02/28/12 at 01:21 AM ET

Posted by dougie on 02/28/12 at 07:59 AM ET

Thank you.

Holland has made few mistakes, and most of them have been deadline day deals (and the Ericsson contract). Most GMs make their biggest mistakes on deadline day deals.

If he trades for Quincey on Monday instead of 5 days earlier, most of the people whining would be saying, “Would’ve liked a forward, but at least we made a move to get better.” It is a silly psychological thing.

One of the only other things in this thread that makes any rational sense:

The hand is now forced.  Kenny has to be huge in the offseason, or else we really are probably looking at the end…

Posted by Primis on 02/28/12 at 07:20 AM ET

A lot of potential changes are out there. A lot of really good UFAs are going to be out there as well. I fully agree with Holland’s apparent strategy of avoiding rentals in the cap world. With that said, the strategy is only good if he uses the cap space we think the team will have (who knows what the CBA will look like) to sign a legitimate top-tier player, like Parise and/or Suter.

Also, we as fans have to face the facts that KH faced up to years ago—the team HAS to rely on its young guys now. They can’t keep trading those young guys for skilled, but somewhat overpaid veterans to kick the can down the road. The cap doesn’t allow it.

I’m not suggesting that trading a couple fourth round picks hurts that. But trading a second first rounder, after shelling out for Quincey (which was a good long-term trade, thus far more worthy of a first rounder than the Gaustad deal is, as of this moment) would’ve been crazy. They’ve got to keep those picks and turn them into players. It is the only way to sustain success in the cap league. Otherwise, they can go for broke one time, still have the odds against them because it is so hard to win a Cup under any circumstances, and then have to gut the team and rebuild like Edmonton.

Call me fairweather, but the day I have to start watching a team that decides to succumb to the NHL’s desired cycle of Cup one year last place the next, stockpile high draft picks, get back near the top four years later… I’m done. Might as well just watch the NFL, or flip a coin to entertain myself.

You’re also making the assumption that the price was the same for the Wings as it was for the ‘Nucks on Pahlsson. I’m thinking it probably wasn’t. Would you want KH to trade anyone to a divisional rival, especially if you knew he could’ve gotten the same haul from a non-divisional team?

Posted by Nathan from the scoresheet! on 02/28/12 at 10:46 AM ET

bezukov's avatar

I for one, usually piss and moan about Holland letting players go by….  Today I was bitching and moaning like all of you until about 4 pm when it finally sunk in….


There wasn’t much to be had today .....  Nash, heh forget that.  Crazy inflated prices for all.

Posted by Jim from Nashville on 02/28/12 at 07:06 AM ET

You pretty much summed up how I feel about yesterday Jim.  Consider the number of folks who were actually traded, Quincey was the best talent, and we got him.  I would like to have seen Pahlsson or Gaustad, but honestly, we already have a slew of third and fourth liners in the organization.

It was frustrating, but I walked away from the day standing behind Holland, with all my hair pulled out and on the floor.

Posted by bezukov from the kids are alright. on 02/28/12 at 10:47 AM ET

MsRedWinger's avatar

What I saw yesterday was not much to be acquired, much to be lost, and emotional Red Wings fans wanting miracles.  Well, I don’t believe in miracles, I believe in cool, rational analysis.  And Tick Tock and Uncle Mike explained yesterday to my satisfaction.

The Wings have just as good a chance as any other team to hoist the Stanley Cup this year. 

Can ANYONE guarantee that will happen?  No.  Let’s get real.  And…

LET’S GO RED WINGS !!!!!

Posted by MsRedWinger from Flori-duh on 02/28/12 at 10:51 AM ET

Avatar

If you’re the “best GM in the business”, you get by the obstacles and make something happen.

YES.  One thousand times YES.

Kenny paid a 1st for Quincey (who now is already hurt even).

Even though it was a salary dump, let’s not forget that Kenny paid a 1st AND a prospect.

Call me fairweather, but the day I have to start watching a team that decides to succumb to the NHL’s desired cycle of Cup one year last place the next, stockpile high draft picks, get back near the top four years later… I’m done. Might as well just watch the NFL, or flip a coin to entertain myself.

Because that’s what trading a second rounder would do?  Losing a #55-60 pick will take this team from perennial playoff team to last place?

Holland gets a “F” today, as in fuched up royally.

Absolutely.  Not making a deal is one thing, but not making a deal while everyone else around you is bettering themselves is another.

Look at the Gaustad thing.  He could’ve been had and he could’ve been had for not a lot.  AND if Holland had been aggressive and gotten him then not only would the Wings have been improved, but the Predators wouldn’t have gotten him.

Well, I don’t believe in miracles, I believe in cool, rational analysis.

OK, how about this?  A Red Wings teams that has relied way too much all year on goaltending did nothing to improve their completely mediocre power play and penalty kill, dumped off defensive depth for nothing and watched everyone around them get better.

A miracle?  Most of us weren’t asking for a miracle.  Most of us were looking for an upgrade in size/grit/toughness to solidify out depth at forward.

If that’s a miracle…

Posted by Garth on 02/28/12 at 11:07 AM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

let’s not forget that Kenny paid a 1st AND a prospect.

If Sebastien Piche plays more than 10 games in the NHL, I will eat a shoe.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 02/28/12 at 11:11 AM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

...but I guess allowing the 4th fewest shots per game is relying too heavily on your goaltending.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 02/28/12 at 11:12 AM ET

Jeff  OKWingnut's avatar

My perspective on Holland failing has everything to do with the fact that this may be the year (but hopefully next year), #5 hangs them up.

If anyone of you bitches think that the Wings will be just as competitive without the greatest hockey player of a generation - I’d love to hear your argument (you won’t get any from Ian “my career is resurrected” White).

Holland’s stand pat approach was appropriate and has been appropriate over the past many seasons - if the asking prices were too high - exactly because the Wings were going to be very competitive anyways, so the long term approach was sound thinking.

Like the Chief said, and I said, and a minority of others - yesterday presented a completely different and unusual circumstance to improve the team.

The window for making a bold move (or any move) to improve the Wing’s immediate chances of winning the Cup (and perhaps their best chance in a while) has closed.

That is precisely why I am pissed.

Posted by Jeff OKWingnut from Quest for 12 on 02/28/12 at 11:24 AM ET

Bent's avatar

I’m with the glass half full crowd on this one.  I was suprised that nothing was done, like everyone, unless you count Quincey, who was basically an early deadline deal.  But I don’t think this means we are any worse off.  The wings are still among the tops in the league, and hopefully they can stop their little skid and not look back.  We know the team is capable of making any other team look silly.  And here’s hoping they can do just that for the rest of the year.

Posted by Bent from The U.P. on 02/28/12 at 11:29 AM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

Ken Holland did not stand pat. He added Kyle Quincey.

The Hasek used to have a jukebox. Now it has a Skrillex, whatever the fuch that is.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 02/28/12 at 11:39 AM ET

Avatar

...but I guess allowing the 4th fewest shots per game is relying too heavily on your goaltending.

What about the unnofficial record for “most breakways per game” or most “bran cramps per game by an otherwise good defensive corps,which ohbytheway don’t get any help from lazy forwards on their own side”?

Come on, JJ. You know the difference between shots allowed and stupid scoring chances.

Posted by Herm from the office on 02/28/12 at 11:40 AM ET

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Ken Holland did not stand pat. He added Kyle Quincey.

Which was not the team biggest need.

Posted by Herm from the office on 02/28/12 at 11:41 AM ET

Nate A's avatar

Would I have liked another forward? Yeah, I’m still very concerned about our Power Play and refusal to attack the middle of the ice. But I don’t give a damn about any of the bottom 6 guys that were tossed around. The highest skill guy dealt yesterday was Kostitsyn. BFD. Apparently no one else was on the market for anything even a crazy person would offer or someone would have grabbed them. (yes, there was the Carter deal a week ago, but that was more of a sideways move for both teams, not a buy/build. Not the move we’re in a position to make)

The Quincey move I’m OK with because he’s RFA, and it improved he team. The move that bothers me is Commodore. I know we did him a favor and that’s what classy folk like Holland do. But there’s no question it hurts our defensive depth. This means we’re 2 injuries away from seeing B Smith in playoff games, maybe only 1 depending on who you ask. The kid has boatloads of potential, I get it, but he’s still very raw and I do not want to see him dressing for games in April.  Deadline moves for a contender should not make the team worse, and the Commodore move does just that.

Posted by Nate A from Detroit-ish on 02/28/12 at 11:54 AM ET

RorSchach's avatar

The Hasek used to have a jukebox. Now it has a Skrillex, whatever the fuch that is.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 02/28/12 at 09:39 AM ET

I still don’t know what a Skrillex is. I was told to google it or something, but, I’m to busy things that matter more.

Posted by RorSchach from Datsberg on 02/28/12 at 11:58 AM ET

RorSchach's avatar

Posted by Nate A from Detroit-ish on 02/28/12 at 09:54 AM ET

How is this any different then seeing BIG Rig dressing in April when he did a few years ago? A forward turned into a D Man with no talent whatsoever. Personally, I’d rather see Smith cause it’s his natural position.

Posted by RorSchach from Datsberg on 02/28/12 at 12:00 PM ET

Avatar

...but I guess allowing the 4th fewest shots per game is relying too heavily on your goaltending.

Yeah, you’re right.  We should look at bare stats rather than actually watching the games.

New user name, PSH?

Posted by Garth on 02/28/12 at 12:14 PM ET

Nate A's avatar

How is this any different then seeing BIG Rig dressing in April when he did a few years ago?

That one worked out for that season, but it’s not the norm.  Even if Smith turns out to be the second coming of Orr, depth still took a big hit with that trade. That’s not the direction a contender should go at the deadline.

Posted by Nate A from Detroit-ish on 02/28/12 at 12:15 PM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

Come on, JJ. You know the difference between shots allowed and stupid scoring chances.

Posted by Herm from the office on 02/28/12 at 09:40 AM ET

Yes I do.  I also know that there’s a good correlation between owning the shot differential and the scoring chance differential.

... and I know Detroit has a hearty lead in both of those categories. 

If you want to talk about unofficial records for breakaways, odd-man rushes and brain cramps, then that’s fine. When all you see are Red Wings games, it’s easy to assume that the Wings do it more often than any other team. Get some official records and let’s talk.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 02/28/12 at 12:23 PM ET

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Welcome to Abel to Yzerman, a Red Wing blog since 1977.  No other site on the internet has better-researched, fact-laden and better prepared discussions than A2Y.  Re-phrase: we do little research, find facts and stats highly overrated and claim little to no preparation.  There are 19 readers of A2Y. No more, no less. All of them, except maybe one, are juvenile in nature.  Reminding them of that in the comment section will only encourage them to prove that. Your suggestions and critiques are welcome: wphoulihan@gmail.com