Kukla's Korner

Abel to Yzerman

Video- The Talk After The Wings Are Shutout 2-0 By Nashville

So far, only the coach appears on video. I will add to this post if more videos become available.  Game highlights added below at 10:49pmadded 10:53am, below, find Dylan Larkin and Jeff Blashill in one video.

 

Highlights

 

 

Filed in: | Abel to Yzerman | Permalink
 

Comments

damndog revenge   From the bowels of Detroit's avatar

You only need to see the possession numbers above to tell you this team has talent to compete. Puck Possession. Wings have had this edge often in the last handful of games. They even won one.

The lack of scoring is by choice. We have heard the players and the “coach” pontificate this for the last 5 years! And Badcock before him. Both coaches have push this scheme and stifled the offense and the inclination of every offensive player that has come and gone. They want Offensive Players to fit this defensive mode. Which is fine, but do not recreate the talent if it hinders offensive production. This how Pittsburgh was so dominate for years. They allowed some of the higher talented O players to be just that. With a little sprinkle of Defensive of mind.

How many ones and dones did you see last night from the wings in the O zone? how about every night? How about the last 8 years? It’s scheme (sorry to be redundant)! And that is 5-5! Let’s not talk about the PP.

There is many teams that have good talent (buffalo) that struggle because of coaching schemes that Do Not Fit the Players. I am not saying the Wings are even close to being a good team, but they can be better with some deviation from this wrenched scheme. This team is Predictable and Extremely Boring. They are hard to watch even when they are not Keystoned Slops out there because they are boring.

The other reason I am losing interest is seeing Filly and Nielsen on the ice. They have a good game every ten games or so. How does someone get waived and end up playing the next game? I understand that move was for roster flexibility, but if that is the case put Chevy or Smith or any youth in the line up. This is not all on blashill either. Yzerman may like were this team is at but i can almost guarantee most of the fans do not. And I know that does mean squat.

It is time to start moving away from the old paradigm in many aspects with this team. I understand they have some bad contracts on the books, but I rather send Nielsen and Fil down to GR and they can decide about their futures there. Enough is enough with this cumbersome paradigm.

Posted by damndog revenge From the bowels of Detroit on 02/24/21 at 08:28 AM ET

Figaro's avatar

Exactly!  Playing a 200’ game should also include the Offensive Zone!

Posted by Figaro from Los Alamos, NM on 02/24/21 at 10:36 AM ET

Avatar

So do we go D first pick next draft or forward?  Where do you think we end up picking? Too bad there’s no McDavids on the horizon, not that I think we could win a lottery at this point.  Michigan has 3 players that could go in the first that have attributes we need like backend offense or PP acumen.  Only looks like maybe 1 player with a quick development window in Powers.  Everyone else so far look like 3 to 4 year development track.  As of now at least.

Posted by ThatGuy on 02/24/21 at 11:36 AM ET

Avatar

So, Bert is evidently the straw that stirs the drink on this team so well include him in the core despite his contract.  Larkin, hronek and zadina for sure I consider part of the future as of now.  Do you think Mantha is core worthy or a future gun for hire on already stacked teams, similar to AA?

Seider and Raymond have potential to be core pieces and berggren. We’ve got a first and second pair dman, a c, l and 2 rws.  Could this core compete?

Fun to think about how much better this team could look in 5 or 6 years.  We could potentially contend in the playoffs in 9 or 10 years.  Larkin would be 34, but he’ll probably still be a top line center lol.

Cheekiness aside, the next 5 years should be our cores prime and we’re still very early in the rebuild it appears.  I don’t know how we draft and develop enough players to make our current roster competitive in time to capitalize on their skill in their prime.  Do we make players in the core available and shoot for the stars the next few drafts?

Posted by ThatGuy on 02/24/21 at 11:50 AM ET

MurrayChadwick's avatar

Posted by damndog revenge From the bowels of Detroit on 02/24/21 at 07:28 AM ET

I don’t agree with that at all.

The lack of scoring is by choice.

  and

This how Pittsburgh was so dominate for years.

What, your comparing coaching style applied to a team that had Crosby and Malkin as a 1-2 punch and Letang to a team that, at best, has 2 guys that might play on the 2nd line on the better rosters in this league and Hronek who is a #3?

And you want to replace Fil and Neilson with Schev and Smith, do either play the PK, which both of them do? Do either transport the puck up the ice, an aspect we have too few of?  I think your ire is misplaced on their contracts, you should be thinking in terms of Schev over Gagner, and Smith over Erne, though I will admit he’s been better of late.

I get the frustration, its a bad watch, but eye on the prize from my view, this season is a toss away.  60 games, no fans, no expectations, why push Smith up here early? Give him some games, give him pointers to work on and the game time in the AHL to do it, rinse repeat until you have a more developed and more impactful player next season.

I don’t get Schev, never did, but in Yzerman we trust right, something must not be up to muster there.

Posted by MurrayChadwick from YzerHolland2.0's pixie dust fueled bandwagon on 02/24/21 at 12:52 PM ET

damndog revenge   From the bowels of Detroit's avatar

Murray,

I am not comparing apples to apples here. I believe the scheme most top teams use like Pitts are more balanced in their scheme. I understand they have/had “elite” Players and we do not. I get this. But Babcock/blashill scheme is cumbersome that devours the creativity of the offensive talented players, IMO.

You are the number one poster on here that preaches the lack of talent. Let’s look at this team minus Gagne, Erne and Filly:

Mantha, Larkin, Fabbri, Bert, Namey, Glenny, Hronek, Nielsen ( you like his play), Zadina, Helm, Juice, Merrill, Stecher, DD,
Bernie, Greiss,

You have 9 forwards that can be on any team in the NHL (I am not including Neilsen) and since they have played some, I will add Smith, Ras, Hirose. Of those 9 forwards, six have a history of being scores in all leagues they played in. Where is their stats now?

All the D can play on any team in the NHL and same with the goalies. I am not seeing the huge talent deficiency you are seeing.

Now I am not saying any of these players are elite, but most are decent if not good to very good when allowed to play to Their natural abilities. We have seen a steady decline in goals every year since blash has been coach. Yes, some has been talent and some still is, but what is the one consistent cog in all this decline in offensive production?

I am not saying this team should be winning every game nor they even close to be top level. But they should be producing more offense. You are a coach, what do you see in their positioning in the ozone? What are their tendencies? I see they are on their heels ready to back peddle instead of moving forward.

A2Y Nation, what do you think?

Posted by damndog revenge From the bowels of Detroit on 02/24/21 at 01:42 PM ET

MurrayChadwick's avatar

Posted by damndog revenge From the bowels of Detroit on 02/24/21 at 12:42 PM ET

You have 9 forwards that can be on any team in the NHL

Sure they can play hockey, but think about this, which are so offensively talented that they would be locks on the PP for the top say 8 teams in the league?  The only one is Mantha for sure. Maybe Larkin or Fabri maybe Hronek depending on the team, Zadina probably is still in the AHL with others. And even if they were, all of them would be complimentary players to those teams who have true elite play making ability. 

As far as them scoring in other leagues, Maltpy put up 50 goal seasons in juniors, he was a 4th liner for Bowman, it can but doesn’t always just translate.

I believe the scheme most top teams use like Pitts are more balanced in their scheme.

I would counter that top team argument to say that teams like Boston play this way.  The offensive minded teams are oozing with the elite talent, Tampa, Colorado, etc. and the run and gun teams have a lot of high flying bruising horses to get after it on the forecheck and a solid back end to cover it up.

If and when the wings tried to play that way we’d get blown out nightly, we don’t have the elite talent to score enough to overcome the weakness on our backend.

what do you see in their positioning in the ozone?

  I see a lot of failure to execute in tight windows cleanly, which is talent, and I see nobody that 1on1 can make a play to create offense, scheme gets you into place, it creates the options you have with the puck, it can create the windows of time and space, talent has to execute on it.  To that end, I see, I see what Blashill sees to be honest, what Larkin and every other players says when they grab the mic, that the wings are getting looks, but they are not executing on them.
and even they know, their talent level requires them to produce more by banging around the net.

Its not “coaching” or scheme that Brome sent a pass to no one on a red line in 4-2 or that neither Hronek nor Djoos or our rotation of bumpers can deliver a pass to Zadina/Mantha right in their sweet spot to one time it with precision, its just 6 inches off, which means they don’t shoot, or don’t put the shot where they want. 6 inches off in my beer league is money, 6 inches off in the NHL is the difference between 1st and 3rd line.

Posted by MurrayChadwick from YzerHolland2.0's pixie dust fueled bandwagon on 02/24/21 at 02:58 PM ET

Avatar

One thing that stands out to me as just a very
superficial observation is our D.

Who is moving the puck quickly and efficiently
to forwards at speed, let alone nailing accurate
stretch passes, or jumping into plays effectively, or
running the PP effectively?

Our D are NHL players compared to last season
- this is true. Last year we had a broken down and I’m sure
demoralized by losing Daley and Ericsson well in their mid-30s.
We we’re playing Biega 20 mins a night. DeKeyser was out entirely.
Biega was waived by Vancouver. Only in Detroit was he a top-six D.
We were playing Madison Bowey now on Chicago’s taxi squad and
a possible expansion compliance signing. Lindstrom acquitted himself
well for a rookie in his first year in North America. But his upside is probably
bottom pairing on a good team.

So, to add Stecher, Merrill, and Staal, have DeKeyser return,
and see Biega return to being the depth fill-in he is.
But…Hronek is still our only offensive defenseman. He’s still young and
we pay him like a number one D with little support. Nemeth was being scratched
by Colorado before we signed him. He’s a serviceable NHL defensive defenseman
- bottom pairing on a decent team. Merrill is an upgrade, but he was being scratched
toward the end of last season in Vegas in favor of Nick Holden. Another good team, for sure, and another legit NHL D, but not the top-four he is in Detroit. Stecher was a bottom pairing D being asked to play up a pairing in Vancouver. They would have brought him back by all accounts if not for cap issues, but he’s another third pairing player we need to play higher. Staal is a defender, not a puck mover. Rangers fans piled on him because he was making too much and his play had declined. He’s an NHL player. But he’s not a top-four guy anymore.

So….we have one top-four D in Hronek who is still inconsistent.

Bernier deserves praise and Greiss has been generally competent while
adjusting to a new and much worse team. Our goaltending and defense are better.
But in wondering while our fairly skilled forwards aren’t doing more, part of the issue is still our D. The D doesn’t explain or excuse every deficiency in play at forward at all but it does limit our offense and forced forwards to either do more themselves or play it safe.

Posted by lefty.30 on 02/24/21 at 03:49 PM ET

Avatar

Good discussion, guys

Posted by VPalmer on 02/24/21 at 04:36 PM ET

damndog revenge   From the bowels of Detroit's avatar

I think the D is much better and so is the talent overall. The D’s getting out of their own zone has been night and day over last year and prior years.

The Wings overall stats are better in all areas except scoring chances and goals. Right now they are 20th in the league which is crazy looking at their record. Last year they ended up 30th.

Their possession is has increased quite a bit over last year, but their shots, scoring chances and goals are on the decline. That is a huge telling tell they have the talent to compete.

Look at the numbers, they do not lie.

Posted by damndog revenge From the bowels of Detroit on 02/24/21 at 08:56 PM ET

Avatar

With the forwards, specifically, I’m sure
it’s a combination of lack of the highest end
skill and mediocre coaching at the most generous
and low confidence from the first two factors plus
sustained losing and a poor power play with goes back
to skill and coaching. Who are our high-end creative playmakers?
Who are our snipers? Mantha should be one and he’s been mostly MIA.
Bert is such a multifaceted top-six contributor on offense. He makes his
linemates better.

Columbus is a team that’s struggled badly to score enough
- and has relied on two normally excellent offensive D in
Werenski and Jones who can play big minutes without hurting on D.
They acquired a true sniper in Laine - and while the team as a whole
hadn’t been great, he’s helped them score more goals. Mantha is the closest we have and hasn’t broken thirty goals yet.

I’ve no expertise to go beyond generalities.

But I do think D is a significant piece of the puzzle.
D has become a bigger part of team offense league-wide.
Getting out of our zone helps in reducing goals against and does give us
more possession. But we don’t have D who find a seam and spring forwards.
We don’t have a D who are great shooters and playmakers on the PP.
We don’t have D who read plays and hit the top of the slot to receive a pass uncovered or bang in a rebound. We don’t really even have D who put opponents on their heels by finding forwards at full speed.

We have much more competent D but not when it comes to impacting offense.

Posted by lefty.30 on 02/24/21 at 10:30 PM ET

damndog revenge   From the bowels of Detroit's avatar

“The Wings had the worst goals per game (2.00) in the NHL last season. So far this season, they’re last again at 1.86.”

Let’s agree that is a significant drop with better (not elite) talent. Especially on the back end.

Posted by damndog revenge From the bowels of Detroit on 02/25/21 at 08:43 AM ET

Avatar

There are definitely a lot of reasons why and these numbers
definitely coexist with an improved defense. But better mostly at defending
and getting the puck out. Driving offense in the aforementioned ways - not so much.
We just don’t have the personnel.

Larkin’s shooting percentage being so low (hasn’t realized it was close to 5%, missing Bertuzzi, and Mantha not being anywhere near his best are all related and the Wings have relied on that one, top line for so much of their offense.

Ryan and Fabbri and Zadina showed signs of being a decent offensive second line early but since covid protocol and so on that’s mostly disappeared. Even when better it shows how thin this roster still is: they can’t sustain a loss of offensive players.

Posted by lefty.30 on 02/25/21 at 10:48 AM ET

damndog revenge   From the bowels of Detroit's avatar

I think we need a SIPOC or a swim lane map

Posted by damndog revenge From the bowels of Detroit on 02/25/21 at 12:08 PM ET

MurrayChadwick's avatar

I think we need a SIPOC or a swim lane map

Posted by damndog revenge From the bowels of Detroit on 02/25/21 at 11:08 AM ET

NOOOOOOOOOO I come here to get away from that and politics.

Posted by MurrayChadwick from YzerHolland2.0's pixie dust fueled bandwagon on 02/25/21 at 01:00 PM ET

MurrayChadwick's avatar

“The Wings had the worst goals per game (2.00) in the NHL last season. So far this season, they’re last again at 1.86.”

Let’s agree that is a significant drop with better (not elite) talent. Especially on the back end.

Posted by damndog revenge From the bowels of Detroit on 02/25/21 at 07:43 AM ET

Can I toss out a couple factors to at least consider in the mix.

For a long stretch of that sample, we had 5 regulars out with Covid. We are now missing Bert, he was an all star last year, that said, we were also down Mantha last year and Fabri was a mid season pickup. Too me I think Ryan and AA will have about the same level of impact on this team.

But to me the biggest difference is that the NHL is playing a compressed season that might come down to winning %, and a bad two week stretch might do a team in or cause them matchup issues, long story short, these games matter.  Over 82 games, when the sorry sack Wings are on tap, are you focused, giving 110% when your team is locked for the playoffs? Probably not.

When you blow out Jimmy Howard early, are you fighting full stop defensively in the 3rd period to batten down the hatch?  Probably not. I remember some games where we were down 6-0 and fought back to 6-4, that factors in.

The other difference is divisional play.  1) we don’t get to play the other terrible teams like Ottawa, the Ducks, Buffalo, Sharks, 2) when you play the same teams, they can game plan for you (see point above about getting best effort) 3) It doesn’t help confidence not to see new teams when your losing to most and have to face them repeatedly.

Posted by MurrayChadwick from YzerHolland2.0's pixie dust fueled bandwagon on 02/25/21 at 01:22 PM ET

Add a Comment

Please limit embedded image or media size to 575 pixels wide.

Add your own avatar by joining Kukla's Korner, or logging in and uploading one in your member control panel.

Captchas bug you? Join KK or log in and you won't have to bother.

Smileys

Notify me of follow-up comments?

Feed

Most Recent Blog Posts

About Abel to Yzerman

Welcome to Abel to Yzerman, a Red Wing blog since 1977.  No other site on the internet has better-researched, fact-laden and better prepared discussions than A2Y.  Re-phrase: we do little research, find facts and stats highly overrated and claim little to no preparation.  There are 19 readers of A2Y. No more, no less. All of them, except maybe one, are juvenile in nature.  Reminding them of that in the comment section will only encourage them to prove that. Your suggestions and critiques are welcome: wphoulihan@gmail.com