Kukla's Korner

Abel to Yzerman

Spokes In A Great Big Winged Wheel

I'm writing this at 0900 PST and the last thing George told me was that William Tell is in for the Strangler.  Note to Sobotka, reinforce the glass behind the nets...hell, ALL the glass.  A hail of rubber is headed your way.  

I've decided Justin Abdelkader is my huckleberry today.  I have a feeling, an inkling really.  Something tells me this young man is going to be a wrecking ball of a force tonite in front of hockey's greatest fan base, in hockey's greatest arena, with banners hanging down and fat men with red cheeks sputtering while aging Fins, balding assholes and a pansy named Perry get angrier and angrier.  

It's a big one.  A big fat one.  

Hope you enjoyed your Saturday, used your time wisely to prepare yourselves for what's to come.  Somewhere, Larry Murphy is incoherent.  Somewhere closer Darren Helm is wondering what he's done to baby Jesus.  I keep waiting for the game that he's just, without fanfare, announced as a starter.  Surprise me.  I dig it.  Fairy tales, I know.

It's a Live Blog, you bitches.  Grab your seats.  Unwrap the cheddar.  Hide the pets. Warn the neighbors.  Keep your whore mouths shut unless the situation is clearly deserving.  

LGRW. 15 to 12.  

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Comments

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WestWing's avatar

If I do move to the Portland/Vancouver area, we will go see some games.  If they are still there in 2-5 years.

Posted by calquake on 05/05/13 at 12:21 AM ET

You’re on.  It’s a high-quality league with lots of future NHLers.  Besides, I almost always manage to strike up good conversations with a transplant or two when I go to the games.  There’s always a shit-load of Red Wing jerseys, jackets, caps etc. in the crowd at every game.

Posted by WestWing from Portland, Oregon on 05/05/13 at 12:26 AM ET

calquake's avatar

There’s always a shit-load of Red Wing jerseys, jackets, caps etc. in the crowd at every game.

Red Wing fans are truly one the best traveling teams fan-wise.

Posted by calquake on 05/05/13 at 12:35 AM ET

Primis's avatar

Red Wing fans are truly one the best traveling teams fan-wise.

Posted by calquake on 05/05/13 at 12:35 AM ET

As teams are about to discover in the West next season.

Posted by Primis on 05/05/13 at 12:37 AM ET

calquake's avatar

As teams are about to discover in the West next season.

Posted by Primis on 05/05/13 at 12:37 AM ET

The gift that will continue to give for at least a few years… I hope.

Posted by calquake on 05/05/13 at 12:41 AM ET

MsRedWinger's avatar

Three thoughts this morning that I haven’t seen anyone else bring up:

1)  Jimmah has given up 4 goals in each of the last two games.  But unlike in ‘08, when Uncle Mike could pull Dom and insert Ozzie, Jimmah has no back up!  The poor guy really hasn’t had a solid, healthy, reliable back up since he started in the NHL. 

2) Re: our veteran players - Uncle Mike said in the post-game comments that because of all the power plays in the first period, they’d all had too much ice time in the first period.  He said he would rather not have the power plays and get some 5 on 5 hockey going.  I thought this was a valid point - maybe those guys simply wore out in the third.

3) I keep wondering why the hell Tootoo has been sitting.  He brings such energy, is a great skater, and had good chemistry with his line mates.  Bert and Sammy have contributed nothing, and have caused linemates to become tentative.

Posted by MsRedWinger from Flori-duh on 05/05/13 at 08:33 AM ET

PaulinMiamiBeach's avatar

I keep wondering why the hell Tootoo has been sitting.

well that’s likely about to change.  if they suspend Abdelkader, maybe we’ll see Tootoo and Bertuzzi on a line with Cleary.  I’d like that!

Posted by PaulinMiamiBeach on 05/05/13 at 09:02 AM ET

PaulinMiamiBeach's avatar

although I was happy with Sammy last night, too.  not too many in the league can take a penalty, then goad the other team into evening it out.  that’s a skill you just can’t teach.

Posted by PaulinMiamiBeach on 05/05/13 at 09:02 AM ET

MsRedWinger's avatar

Paul, sounds good to me too.  But are any of those guys centers? 

I’m already prepared to gag when we find out that either Cleary or Bert has been placed on the top line - if Abby gets suspended that is.

Posted by MsRedWinger from Flori-duh on 05/05/13 at 10:16 AM ET

MsRedWinger's avatar

Abby’s telephone hearing is at 4 PM today.  Holding my breath…

Posted by MsRedWinger from Flori-duh on 05/05/13 at 10:36 AM ET

RWBill's avatar

While I was questioning, as many did, why there was a penalty at all, my understanding of the history of the penalty isn’t exactly the rule of law behind the penalty.  Still, no determination of a penalty by the referees until they feared a player was injured.  Then, knowing that the NHL would be reviewing the play, they determined they needed to call a penalty so they would be considered for reffing into the second round.

Given the wording of the rule, charging may be indicated by the distance Abdelkader traveled to the player, - i.e., “lining him up” -  nothing dependent upon leaving his feet, elbow up, etc., which I don’t believe he did.  Admittedly I hadn’t considered that part of it.

Still, what the NHL does continues to be random depending on circumstances, not establishing a standard upon which the players can determine how to act and play.

The best thing a team of the recipient player can do is go through the motions and public statements that their player is injured or at least being evaluated for concussion or other injury until after the NHL hearing.  This will always increase the punishment of the offending player, or determine that the player was in fact in violation at all, rather than by his actions alone.


Posted by RWBill from cruising Brush Street with creepy Rob Lowe. on 05/05/13 at 11:12 AM ET

RWBill's avatar

By the wording, no player should ever “finish his check”, i.e., skate into another player.

The result is what we see, total randomness in penalty calling and disciplinary action.

Posted by RWBill from cruising Brush Street with creepy Rob Lowe. on 05/05/13 at 11:15 AM ET

MsRedWinger's avatar

RWBill, you’re right.  The definition of charging at the beginning of that excerpt pretty much says don’t hit anybody if you’re moving in any way.  Geez.

Posted by MsRedWinger from Flori-duh on 05/05/13 at 11:45 AM ET

CaptainDennisPolonich's avatar

Thanks for posting that,Bill. Hayward on the Ducks broadcast was making a big deal about the number of strides Abby took. I don’t see how Abby could have been lining him up when Lyman didn’t have the puck when Abby started skating to that corner.

Posted by CaptainDennisPolonich from The Land of Fake Boobs and Real Nuts on 05/05/13 at 12:06 PM ET

pgoody's avatar

I’ve decided Justin Abdelkader is my huckleberry today.  I have a feeling, an inkling really.  Something tells me this young man is going to be a wrecking ball of a force tonite

Very prophetic Chief

Posted by pgoody on 05/05/13 at 02:28 PM ET

WestWing's avatar

By the wording, no player should ever “finish his check”, i.e., skate into another player.

The result is what we see, total randomness in penalty calling and disciplinary action

A few key points .

1. No penalty was going to be called, nor would have been called (nor should have been called) on the Abdelkader hit, had Lydman not been shaken up on the play.  I think that much is obvious.

2. We saw with the Gryba hit that the league has essentially said that a check deemed to be neither intentional nor even illegal by any definition, for reasons never made clear, still requires that a player must be suspended anyway.

So what we’re dealing with is a totally subjective, completely grey area wherein the league is basically penalizing only the result of the hit.  Neither Gryba nor Abdlekader get any suspension of any kind had the plays not resulted in injury. 

Well guess what folks?  This is a very fast game played by big, fast, strong athletes and whether we like it or not, players are going to be injured in collisions from time to time.  Hey I’m all for eliminating cheap shots from the game, but I strongly disagree with those overly sensitive souls who have arrived at the belief that any hit that is hard enough to potentially injure an opponent is also worthy of suspension if in fact an injury does occur regardless of whether the hit falls within the rules or not.

And if you don’t believe that this what’s happening, I suggest you watch and listen to Shanahan’s asinine double-speak rambling in explaining the Gryba suspension wherein he basically comes right out and says (paraphrasing) that the player likely had no intent, the head was not specifically targeted, and the hit was probably well within the rules, but we really have to suspend he guy anyway.

This is the sort of sorry ass lame bullshit we’ve come to expect from the guy who found no grounds for suspension of a player who grabs an opponent by the helmet and smashes his head into the glass. 

As I said, I’m all for cleaning up the game and eliminating cheap shots, but until someone can clear up this huge bit of horse-shit hypocrisy that says an actual clear-cut, no-doubt cheap-shot with full intent to injure another player goes un-punished while hits that, without injury would otherwise merit no suspension, continue to draw disciplinary action, please spare me your attempts to defend Player Safety Czar Shanahan or the NHL for their ongoing incompetence in these matters.  It’s a crock of shit and it’s ruining the sport.

Posted by WestWing from Portland, Oregon on 05/05/13 at 02:47 PM ET

RWBill's avatar

yeah, all of that!

Did he violently check an opponent as a result of the distance traveled?

I’m not even sure what’s written down is a factor anymore, i.e., what are the elements of the crime that they have to prove?

It’s the NHL, they don’t have to prove anything, the refs called a penalty late only because he was slow to get up and they want to be picked by the NHL to ref in the next round.

There is certainly no targetting of the head although his shoulder probably slid into his jaw or temple upon impact.

I am resigned to whatever they call.  There have been numerous jabs to players’ heads in this series that were deliberate but haven’t even been penalties.

Posted by RWBill from cruising Brush Street with creepy Rob Lowe. on 05/05/13 at 03:10 PM ET

Primis's avatar

I want to say something too re: headshot, whether his head was hit or not, concussion, etc.

Please… please please PLEASE be better fans than to say Lydman is “faking” ? Please?

He’s not, I really don’t think he is.  The glimpse of his eyes right after the hit looks like something messed him up.  Even if Abby didn’t contact his head, he wouldn’t need to in order to concuss him… whiplash alone can cause a concussion because it comes from sudden force of the brain against the skull, and whiplash can do that.

Word is out that Lydman has headaches, lights are bothering him, etc.  They probably are.  The guy is probably concussed and I hope the Ducks keep him out now until he can really be cleared safely.

Nobody needs to equate the results (a concussion) as proof to contact or no contact with the head, and we don’t need to sit here and question whether someone is lying about the effects.  We’re better than that.  ‘k?  Let other fanbases lower themselves to that level.  Regardless of what you think of the hit or penalty or anything else, has some decency and recognize that the guy is probably actually concussed.

Posted by Primis on 05/05/13 at 04:12 PM ET

CaptainDennisPolonich's avatar

Westie, the ref at the other end of the rink, about 180ft from the hit, did raise his arm immediately. It was a bad call, but it was not a because-someone-got-hurt late call.

Posted by CaptainDennisPolonich from The Land of Fake Boobs and Real Nuts on 05/05/13 at 04:22 PM ET

stonehands-78's avatar

Posted by Primis on 05/05/13 at 04:12 PM ET

+19

L.G.R.W.

Posted by stonehands-78 from the beginning ... a WingsFan, on 05/05/13 at 04:25 PM ET

WestWing's avatar

1. I’ve never suggested Lydman was faking.  I’ve simply said that basing penalties and supplemental discipline based on injuries is fundamentally flawed and inevitably encourages players to fake injuries in order to gain a competitive edge.  Lydman may well have a concussion.  I don’t dispute that.  But again, harsh as it might sound, there is an inherent bodily risk involved in playing a contact sport.  If we wish to eliminate that, then the ONLY thing to do is to remove contact from the game.

2. This has nothing whatsoever to do with being a part of any particular fan base.  This is about applying the rules of the game in a sane, sensible and consistent way.  Of course it’s possible to take the NHL’s highly nuanced point of view that every hit somehow exists in its own universe, but this does NOTHING to clarify the issue for the players other than to say, after the fact, and presumably only when a player has already been injured, “gee, you shouldn’t have hit him like that”.  Well yes, none of us want to see players injured, and everything indeed becomes obvious in hindsight as to what specifically went wrong with a particular hit, but again this does NOTHING to give the players on the ice any type of useful advance guideline as to what types of hits are acceptable so as to actually prevent these types of things from happening.  Again, if we’re focusing solely on the injury aspect of all this as opposed to whether or not the hit in question rises to a level deserving of supplemental discipline, then the only way to eliminate bodily harm resulting from contact is to simply remove contact from the game.

3. I’ll say it again, because it clearly bears repeating—I’m completely in favor of taking illegal, predatory hits out of the game.  But there is nothing in the rule book, nor in any reasonable definition of what constitutes a predatory hit that would include some of the plays we’ve seen recently—and I refer specifically here not only to the Abdelkader play but also the Gryba hit in Montreal.  These are hockey plays.  They happen.  We’re all rightfully disturbed when injuries result.  But to simply assert that injuries (specifically head injuries) are always and without fail grounds to severely penalize and suspend regardless of legality or intent, while obviously illegal actions that clearly have malicious intent but somehow (perhaps even remarkably) fail to produce an injury go un-punished, is the kind of “big lie” that would make fascists everywhere green with envy. 

Posted by WestWing from Portland, Oregon on 05/05/13 at 05:04 PM ET

PaulinMiamiBeach's avatar

I sure hope the Wings are watching the Minny/Chicago game so they can see how the Wild are playing.  THAT is how you take away the talent advantage.  energy, good hits, lots of them.  if the Wings can play like that against Anaheim, they won’t lose another game.

Posted by PaulinMiamiBeach on 05/05/13 at 05:07 PM ET

stonehands-78's avatar

Posted by WestWing from Portland, Oregon on 05/05/13 at 05:04 PM ET

+19

L.G.R.W.

Posted by stonehands-78 from the beginning ... a WingsFan, on 05/05/13 at 05:12 PM ET

RWBill's avatar


Please… please please PLEASE be better fans than to say Lydman is “faking” ? Please?

Posted by Primis on 05/05/13 at 04:12 PM ET

Where did you read that?

Posted by RWBill from cruising Brush Street with creepy Rob Lowe. on 05/05/13 at 06:17 PM ET

Kate from Pa.-made in Detroit's avatar

Abby got 2 games.

Lets Go Red Wings!!!!!

Posted by Kate from Pa.-made in Detroit on 05/05/13 at 07:26 PM ET

Kate from Pa.-made in Detroit's avatar

Linky.


http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20130505/SPORTS0103/305050351/

Lets Go Red Wings!!!!!

Posted by Kate from Pa.-made in Detroit on 05/05/13 at 07:29 PM ET

MsRedWinger's avatar


This is the sort of sorry ass lame bullshit we’ve come to expect from the guy who found no grounds for suspension of a player who grabs an opponent by the helmet and smashes his head into the glass.

THIS is what I keep thinking.

Posted by MsRedWinger from Flori-duh on 05/05/13 at 07:32 PM ET

Kate from Pa.-made in Detroit's avatar

2 fuching games for charging? WTF?

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=669342&navid=nhl:topheads

Lets Go Red Wings!!!!!

Posted by Kate from Pa.-made in Detroit on 05/05/13 at 07:32 PM ET

pgoody's avatar

Well I mean it could have been longer, didn’t Weber get suspended for the rest of the series after this play last playoffs?...

Posted by pgoody on 05/05/13 at 07:35 PM ET

pgoody's avatar


Oh nevermind Weber was only fined, even though in his professional playing career he had already been fined once and suspended once before…

Posted by pgoody on 05/05/13 at 07:38 PM ET

Bent's avatar

Figures.

Posted by Bent from The U.P. on 05/05/13 at 07:46 PM ET

WestWing's avatar

The only consistent thing about any of this is the conspicuous absence of logic in these matters.

I’ll let Shanahan’s idiotic explanation the Gryba suspension speak for itself.

“We do not see malicious intent by Gryba on this play.”

“Eller is eligible to be checked and Gryba does not extend an elbow or launch into the head.”

Therefore Gryba was suspended two games.

This is what we’re up against folks.  Don’t feed us shit and tell us it tastes like sugar Brendan.  Please.  Just stop.  Please don’t continue to tarnish your on-ice achievements with this ass-clownish dog and pony charade any longer.  Just listen to the shit that comes out of your mouth.  That kind of tortured twisting of the language should be reserved for politicians and snake oil salesmen.  Seriously man, what the hell ever happened to your self-respect?

Posted by WestWing from Portland, Oregon on 05/05/13 at 07:53 PM ET

stonehands-78's avatar

Posted by stonehands-78 from the beginning ... a WingsFan, on 05/05/13 at 08:18 PM ET

Primis's avatar

Where did you read that?

Posted by RWBill from the open bar on The Hasek. on 05/05/13 at 06:17 PM ET

I’ve seen some grumblings in other places insinuating as much.  I didn’t want to start seeing that crap here.

Posted by Primis on 05/05/13 at 09:26 PM ET

PaulinMiamiBeach's avatar

I don’t think Shanahan has any say or authority in these matters.  it comes across to me as him just reading something someone else wrote for him to say.  this bullshit is coming from higher up.  none of it makes any sense.

they clearly don’t care whether or not the check was legal or illegal.  they just care about how it LOOKS to casual fans who don’t know what they’re watching.

Posted by PaulinMiamiBeach on 05/05/13 at 09:59 PM ET

PaulinMiamiBeach's avatar

Primis, I think you may be confusing people saying that the Ducks team overplayed it in order to get as much suspendy goodness as possible, rather than Lydman personally faking anything.

Posted by PaulinMiamiBeach on 05/05/13 at 10:00 PM ET

PaulinMiamiBeach's avatar

here’s what’s funny to me.  2 months ago you would have all loved if Abdelkader got suspended indefinitely for no particular reason.  “what is he doing on the first line?!” was all I heard.

now?  LOL

Posted by PaulinMiamiBeach on 05/05/13 at 10:01 PM ET

Rumbear's avatar

2 games.  That old saying….be careful what you wish for ....just keeps ringing in my ears.

Posted by Rumbear from Top O the Hasek, hanging with Dan Cleary.... on 05/06/13 at 02:07 AM ET

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About Abel to Yzerman

Welcome to Abel to Yzerman, a Red Wing blog since 1977.  No other site on the internet has better-researched, fact-laden and better prepared discussions than A2Y.  Re-phrase: we do little research, find facts and stats highly overrated and claim little to no preparation.  There are 19 readers of A2Y. No more, no less. All of them, except maybe one, are juvenile in nature.  Reminding them of that in the comment section will only encourage them to prove that. Your suggestions and critiques are welcome: wphoulihan@gmail.com