Kukla's Korner

Abel to Yzerman

Right Move To Retain Holland And Blashill?

from Jamie Samuelsen at the Detroit Free Press,

I’m not going to convince you that the decision to retain Ken Holland and Jeff Blashill is the right one or the wrong one. The gathering storm to oust Holland started years ago. Two straight years of missing the playoffs only makes that storm louder and stronger. I’ve long argued that Holland doesn’t get nearly enough credit for revamping the payroll on the fly after the 2005 lockout and rebuilding the team around Nicklas Lidstrom, Pavel Datsyuk and Henrik Zetterberg to win the Stanley Cup in 2008. But I also agree that his draft picks, free agent signings, and perhaps worst of all, contract extensions have been mostly disasters in the last six years.

The most common complaint that you hear about Holland is that he’s too loyal to his players, he has stunted the development of his younger players and that he waited far too long to end the Red Wings quest for the playoffs when it was clear that they were no longer contenders for the Stanley Cup even though they were still contenders for a low playoff seed.

The final argument is 100 percent valid. The thought of “just getting in and seeing what happens” stayed around longer than it should have. It was bolstered by the 25-season playoff streak, the seven-game loss to the Blackhawks in 2013 and the seven-game loss to the Lightning 2015.

more

Filed in: | Abel to Yzerman | Permalink
 

Comments

stonehands-78's avatar

Right Move To Retain Holland And Blashill?

yes

... imho

L.G.R.W.

Posted by stonehands-78 from the beginning ... a WingsFan, on 04/13/18 at 07:29 AM ET

Avatar

Yes.

Unless the plan is for a successful rebuild, in which case HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA no. No, not at all.

Posted by CharDeeMacDennis on 04/13/18 at 08:35 AM ET

Colin's avatar

Yes. This close to the draft during the playoffs is the wrong time for transformative org changes if you want anyone remotely competent and proven to take his place.

Blash being kept less so, though I feel the biggest problems with this team are with personnel, not coaching.

Posted by Colin from Ken Holland's new yacht, "Incompetence" on 04/13/18 at 09:30 AM ET

MurrayChadwick's avatar

Samuelson sums the entire argument against with these three points…

he’s too loyal to his players,
he has stunted the development of his younger players and
that he waited far too long to end the Red Wings quest for the playoffs

I’ll agree with the 1st, Ablekater is overpaid especially in term at the time his deal was done, as was Glenndenning but very nominally IMO.  Helm was just unneeded and should’ve gone bye bye.  I know this isn’t a popular opinion but Z, Ericson, Howard, Kronwall signed market deals IMO, considering the leverage each had when they were signed. DDK was a risk, which has crapped out.

On the 2nd, can anyone give an example of who was “stunted”  The only cases of mismanagement of talent IMO was bringing up Jurco too early. Every other player HHHT whines and gnashes teeth over has not turned out to be a damn thing to this franchise or the ones they reside in today.

On the 3rd, can you blame him? Really, 25 years was a historic run, and while we don’t know what the check signer told him, I’m sold in my mind Ilitch wanted to keep that streak alive and wanted no part of losing for the good of the cause.  I often don’t go against my bosses wishes, tends not to work out so well. 

On the positive side, he overstated the success holland had in my opinion.  He stole future to prop up the past, all GMs do it.

This team is paying back the prices paid to win, something teams like Chicago and NY are going through, something that teams like Tampa and Pens will eventually as their stars age out or become to expensive to maintain under the cap, that’s the reality of a cap sport.

Posted by MurrayChadwick from Holland Hate Hyperbole Town (HHHT) on 04/13/18 at 09:34 AM ET

MurrayChadwick's avatar

By the way Yzerman is not coming back,  and frankly I don’t want him too. He left this team a hero, let’s keep it that way. No GM, and I mean No GM, lives out a tenure with 100% success.

By the way, Yzerman has yet to deliver down in Tampa where he inherited 3 elite all-stars, the best of the best, this has to be his year, he went all in!

Posted by MurrayChadwick from Holland Hate Hyperbole Town (HHHT) on 04/13/18 at 09:37 AM ET

Colin's avatar

I’ll agree with the 1st, Ablekater is overpaid especially in term at the time his deal was done, as was Glenndenning but very nominally IMO.  Helm was just unneeded and should’ve gone bye bye.  I know this isn’t a popular opinion but Z, Ericson, Howard, Kronwall signed market deals IMO, considering the leverage each had when they were signed. DDK was a risk, which has crapped out.

On the 2nd, can anyone give an example of who was “stunted”  The only cases of mismanagement of talent IMO was bringing up Jurco too early. Every other player HHHT whines and gnashes teeth over has not turned out to be a damn thing to this franchise or the ones they reside in today.

On the 3rd, can you blame him? Really, 25 years was a historic run, and while we don’t know what the check signer told him, I’m sold in my mind Ilitch wanted to keep that streak alive and wanted no part of losing for the good of the cause.  I often don’t go against my bosses wishes, tends not to work out so well. 

Posted by MurrayChadwick from Holland Hate Hyperbole Town (HHHT) on 04/13/18 at 09:34 AM ET

Agreed on Abdelkader, Glendening, and Helm. Also on Kronwall, Zetterberg, and Howard. I also have a similar take on DeKeyser, but that is was less risk and more asking too much of a player. DeKeyser isn’t and never was going to be a first-pairing defenseman. I would say his best role is a #4. But thanks to how weak we are and were on D, DeKeyser was pushed too far too fast. Ericsson is where I disagree. He was replaceable then and is replaceable now. At the very least, Holland should have waited until the offseason to re-sign him. Giving him a 6-year extension mid-season while also (based on timing) knowing that he had this degenerative hip condition was a huge mistake.

With #2, the only player of value I see today that was impacted negatively by Holland was Hicketts. He should have made the team this season, and someone like Ouellet or Witkowski sent down. Thankfully, it seems that Hicketts hasn’t let it effect his play too much, as despite his relatively poor season in the AHL he was actually very good in his late-season call-up.

On the 3rd, I will say yes and no. I feel he made some deals, like Ericsson’s and Helm’s, that weren’t even smart for a team trying to push for the playoffs. Both players were very replaceable, and should have never been signed to those deals. Instead, Holland should have looked to outside help if he was really trying to compete or see what a kid could do in that position. Where I can’t blame him was the overall strategy, as ownership sets the target for the team each year. While Holland definitely has input in his assessment of the team’s potential, at the end of the day he isn’t the person who truly gets to pull the trigger on a sell-off. Ownership is.

Posted by Colin from Ken Holland's new yacht, "Incompetence" on 04/13/18 at 10:08 AM ET

Avatar

I wouldn’t be so sure that Yzerman doesn’t come back. Holland’s contract ends when Yzerman’s ends. I think there’s quite a bit of discussion. We don’t know the outcome of the lottery yet. Maybe we get Dahlin??? most likely not but in two years it’s very possible we get two top 5 draft picks and we could get lucky in a few other rounds and maybe Yzerman doesn’t mind coming to a team with a lot of young talent?

Posted by Pasha1277 on 04/13/18 at 10:11 AM ET

Avatar

I’m sold in my mind Ilitch wanted to keep that streak alive and wanted no part of losing for the good of the cause.  I often don’t go against my bosses wishes, tends not to work out so well. 

I just don’t like this line of thinking. It very well may be the case but the thing I don’t like with this reasoning is that Holland is the GM and is expected to do what is best for the team, not blindly do what Illitch told him. If he really saw the need to change after Lidstrom retired, he needed to use his knowledge and expertise to explain to Illitch what needed to be done. And IF he was just doing what Mr. I said and was instructed to just make the playoffs, he compounded that mistake with the lengthy, cap unfriendly deals.

By the way Yzerman is not coming back,  and frankly I don’t want him too. He left this team a hero, let’s keep it that way. No GM, and I mean No GM, lives out a tenure with 100% success.

This. 100% this. If he took over for Holland before taking another GM job, that’s a different story, but this idea of him “coming home” has a higher chance of failing than anything, see Garth Snow, Ron Hextall, et. al.

Yzerman has yet to deliver down in Tampa where he inherited 3 elite all-stars, the best of the best, this has to be his year, he went all in!

But he’s proven able to make necessary moves and sign these guys, Stamkos and Hedman, to incredibly team friendly deals. He’s not the greatest GM ever, but he’s a damn good one.

Posted by Manthanasiou87 on 04/13/18 at 10:16 AM ET

Avatar

Holland Yes
Blashill . No
Holland no for sticking with Blashill.

I believe Holland was told to keep the streak alive as long as possible, which he did though we’re paying for the now.
With the streak over he deserves time to reset.
However I can’t forgive him for Blashill.

Posted by Ventr on 04/13/18 at 11:13 AM ET

Avatar

By the way, Yzerman has yet to deliver

Yzerman did a fabulous job in Tampa even if they do not win the cup. The team he assembled is the favourite to win the cup and that what matters. If they do not win, it’s not his fault at this point. Yes, he inherited 2 superstars, but the team consists of 22 players and most of his signings, trades and draft selections were good to great.

Posted by VPalmer on 04/13/18 at 11:23 AM ET

Primis's avatar

Yes, he inherited 2 superstars, but

Posted by VPalmer on 04/13/18 at 11:23 AM ET

I mean, this is what Holland gets dragged for constantly.  Why does Yzerman get a free pass on the exact same thing?

I think Yzerman has done a good job, not great in Tampa though.  He played hardball with Drouin when he needed to, and he’s done some good signings and trades.  Drafting has been OK.

It’s a bit jarring that he hasn’t done more though, if you really look at it.  He had a superstar forward and a star d-man to build around already, which is super rare.

Posted by Primis on 04/13/18 at 11:32 AM ET

Avatar

I mean, this is what Holland gets dragged for constantly.  Why does Yzerman get a free pass on the exact same thing?

Sorry, but please clarify what KH gets dragged for and Yzerman gets a free pass? Then I can answer.

Posted by VPalmer on 04/13/18 at 11:53 AM ET

Avatar

This close to the draft during the playoffs is the wrong time for transformative org changes if you want anyone remotely competent and proven to take his place.

Then what time of the season is the right time for organizational changes? I know it isn’t easy changing things up right before a draft but anyone worthy of hiring is already going to have a plan in place when it comes to the draft and hiring. They might be a bit hindered that first year but it’s a poor excuse to stay with the status quo. Plus, this is also typically the best time of year to find a new GM as quality people leave or get relieved from other organizations.

 

Posted by evileye on 04/13/18 at 12:50 PM ET

Steve in San Francisco's avatar

I’ll just put this here:
https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/7xddq4/dgb-grab-bag-vegas-knights-are-fun-ewok-gary-bettman-and-trying-harder-is-a-scam

Specifically the “Debating the Issues” bit about a third of the way down.

Posted by Steve in San Francisco on 04/13/18 at 01:50 PM ET

MurrayChadwick's avatar

Ericsson is where I disagree.
Posted by Colin from Ken Holland’s new yacht, “Incompetence” on 04/13/18 at 10:08 AM ET

Revisionist history, or were you saying it at the time, because NOBODY else was…

TMR Entry on 52’s deal

The general reaction in HHHT was positive, as it was outside of Detroit on this deal.

Posted by MurrayChadwick from Holland Hate Hyperbole Town (HHHT) on 04/13/18 at 03:23 PM ET

Colin's avatar

Then what time of the season is the right time for organizational changes? I know it isn’t easy changing things up right before a draft but anyone worthy of hiring is already going to have a plan in place when it comes to the draft and hiring. They might be a bit hindered that first year but it’s a poor excuse to stay with the status quo. Plus, this is also typically the best time of year to find a new GM as quality people leave or get relieved from other organizations.

Posted by evileye on 04/13/18 at 12:50 PM ET

This is something you want to do during the season. If Holland was to be fired, it should have been done around the deadline, before 9 out of the top 10 assistant GM’s began their possibly long playoff runs. You have to ask permission to speak to executives and coaches under contract, and no team in their right mind will do that during the playoffs. You have your negotiations, land a guy, then work out how the transition will work. This allows more time for that new person to consider staff and other needs well in advance of the draft.

The general reaction in HHHT was positive, as it was outside of Detroit on this deal.

Posted by MurrayChadwick from Holland Hate Hyperbole Town (HHHT) on 04/13/18 at 03:23 PM ET

I was about 19-20 years old and not on TMR or any Wings blog at the time of Ericsson’s signing, but if you ask anyone I know they will tell you I was livid about that contract when it happened. I wanted the team to let Ericsson walk. I hated the term, I hated the salary, and I thought he was a way-overvalued, entirely replaceable defenseman.

Posted by Colin from Ken Holland's new yacht, "Incompetence" on 04/13/18 at 03:46 PM ET

bigfrog's avatar

Blash being kept less so, though I feel the biggest problems with this team are with personnel, not coaching.

There is an obvious talent gap on the Red Wings. Blashill did the best with what he was given. confused

Posted by bigfrog on 04/13/18 at 08:07 PM ET

WingDingy's avatar

The boneheaded contract extensions should have been enough to sink Holland.  The only reason he’s still here is because Chris Illich neither understands or cares about hockey.  The only thing that will resonate with him is when people top buying tickets or showing up at games.  Here’s one true fact.  When Mr. I passed away, we lost way more than an owner.

Posted by WingDingy on 04/14/18 at 11:29 AM ET

Add a Comment

Please limit embedded image or media size to 575 pixels wide.

Add your own avatar by joining Kukla's Korner, or logging in and uploading one in your member control panel.

Captchas bug you? Join KK or log in and you won't have to bother.

Smileys

Notify me of follow-up comments?

Feed

Most Recent Blog Posts

About Abel to Yzerman

Welcome to Abel to Yzerman, a Red Wing blog since 1977.  No other site on the internet has better-researched, fact-laden and better prepared discussions than A2Y.  Re-phrase: we do little research, find facts and stats highly overrated and claim little to no preparation.  There are 19 readers of A2Y. No more, no less. All of them, except maybe one, are juvenile in nature.  Reminding them of that in the comment section will only encourage them to prove that. Your suggestions and critiques are welcome: wphoulihan@gmail.com