Kukla's Korner

Abel to Yzerman

Return Of The Suck

Absolute garbage.  After a four game winning streak to hush the whispers, our Wings came out and got manhandled by an obscenely inferior St. Louis team tonite.  Ken Hitchcock or not, that Blues team had no business leading as long as they did.  Naturally, we knew the outcome as soon as the first period five minute major went disgustingly away.

As Mandingo pointed out, there is most likely no team in the NHL with a worse special team component than Detroit. 0 for 6 tonite. No shots the last two power plays.  Helm, Abdelkader and Eaves were your forwards for the last PP’s final minute. With the talent on this team, seeing those three on the ice at that time makes me want to throw up in my mouth. Repeatedly.

And the PK…a kill at the end. But here’s what we knew would happen.  After the Wings abused themselves for five minutes after Kronwall got plowed by Chris Stewart? Tell me you didn’t see it coming…a Blues PP, and a Blues goal within fifteen seconds. Shocking. Oh, and hey…two minors with less than two minutes left?  Seriously.

Yes, yes. I know. The Blues are all intense now. Enthusiastic. Shorter shifts.  More food for Hitch.  Got it. 

Yes, an off night is acceptable. Well, not acceptable…but it happens.  But how about off seasons for the two guys we’ve traditionally depended on to pull the Wings out of scoring slumps, losing streaks?

What the Hell is the problem with Hank Zetterberg and Pavel Datsyuk? I won’t spout the stats at you because I really don’t feel like looking them up. But I know 13 hasn’t scored in 11 games and I know 40 hasn’t done dick either. 

1 shot on goal the final 14 minutes.  Against that team.  Against a team that will be golfing come April, as they always are. 

Disgusting and a shitty way to start a trip that’s gonna test them. 

If I were San Jose, LA or the pathetic poultry? My game plan is this:  run them.  Run them every chance you can.  Blister them and pressure them.  Take the minors if you have to because, despite the talent, that’s just a bad power play.

Hopefully…a one night deal.  San Jose in two days.  Should be interesting.

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Comments

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RWBill's avatar

P1030797

Posted by RWBill from Brush Street cruising with Super Creepy Rob Lowe. on 11/16/11 at 12:32 AM ET

monkey's avatar

Let’s find a nice seafood restaurant and eat some red salmon, I feel a powerful lust for red salmon.

Posted by monkey from Praha, Česká republika on 11/16/11 at 12:34 AM ET

Guilherme's avatar

I offer Filppula+Hudler+1st pick+RWBill’s tail for Rick Nash.

Posted by Guilherme from Brazsil on 11/16/11 at 12:34 AM ET

WestWing's avatar

Let’s find a nice seafood restaurant and eat some red salmon, I feel a powerful lust for red salmon.

You and your damn mescaline.

Posted by WestWing from Portland, Oregon on 11/16/11 at 12:39 AM ET

RWBill's avatar

It says a lot that Hudler, Helm, Abdelkader, and Miller are the most threatening set of forwards at this point in the season.

Posted by RWBill from Brush Street cruising with Super Creepy Rob Lowe. on 11/16/11 at 12:39 AM ET

Primis's avatar

They’re not blocking enough shots in their own end, and they’re not working hard enough to get GOOD shots in the other end.

It really was that simple tonight.

I don’t know that anything is Wrong with Datsyuk.  He gets abused out there night after night now pretty badly and the refs won’t call it.  I don’t know why.

Hank on the other hand… I’m sorry he’s just playing lazy.  He’s not giving that extra effort you need to be a star player.

Posted by Primis on 11/16/11 at 12:41 AM ET

bezukov's avatar

I offer Filppula+Hudler+1st pick+RWBill’s tail for Rick Nash.

Posted by Guilherme from Brazsil on 11/15/11 at 10:34 PM ET

No way.  The Wings already have enough people on the roster who don’t try, why add the offender number one in the NHL to a roster that already has motivational problems?

Posted by bezukov from the kids are alright. on 11/16/11 at 12:41 AM ET

RWBill's avatar

I have a couple of cans of Sockeye in my pantry if you want to get together and exchange Jerry Sandusky experiences.

Posted by RWBill from Brush Street cruising with Super Creepy Rob Lowe. on 11/16/11 at 12:41 AM ET

WestWing's avatar

I offer Filppula+Hudler+1st pick+RWBill’s tail for Rick Nash.

Playin’ kinda fast and loose with Bill’s tail there arentcha?

Posted by WestWing from Portland, Oregon on 11/16/11 at 12:41 AM ET

BTCBen's avatar

How about Filppula+Hudler+1st pick+RWBill’s tail for Zach Parise?  That sounds better to me.

Posted by BTCBen on 11/16/11 at 01:08 AM ET

WestWing's avatar

On a hockey-related note, I’m still not sold on the idea that this current Red Wing roster has the right combination of players to contend for a cup.  As I said on the LB, over the first sixteen games of the season, the Wings’ so-called top line has accounted for a grand total of five goals.

I think it’s time to admit that the Datsyuk, Cleary, Holmstrom combination simply doesn’t work.  There simply isn’t another team in hockey right now whose first line is less productive than this one.  We think Pavel is probably still a great player but, offensively at least, he simply hasn’t been the same dynamic player that we’ve seen in the past. 

Cleary, quite frankly, appears to be in way over his head.  As a scrappy third-liner who brings energy. forechecks, kills penalties and chips in with timely goals, he had few equals.  As the “sniper”—the wingman on Datsyuk’s line—he’s totally out of his element.  A square peg relentlessly being pounded into a round hole.  He’s completely miscast.  It’s just not who he is.

As for Homer, I love the guy, but let’s be realistic.  He was never a great skater and now he’s pushing 40 and simply doesn’t have the chops to sustain the kind of flow that it takes to play along-side Pavel’s magic.  He’s still the best at what he does in front of the net and definitely deserves a place on the top PP unit, but beyond that he should be seeing limited minutes five on five.

I really think Datsyuk has to be frustrated at this point.  Let’s face it, Cleary and Homer don’t even get a sniff of top six, let alone top line minutes, on a team like San Jose.  Pavelski, Marleau, Couture, Clowe, Havlat—hell,with the exception of Datsyuk, any one of these guys would be a considerable upgrade over the talent on Detroit’s current top line.  And those of you who know my history of hate for that organization and its fan base, know just how much it hurts me to say that.  But I fear it’s true.

We get frustrated by lack of effort or whatever and we often refer to Detroit’s talent.  But personally, I’m not as sold on their talent as some of you.  Look at it this way. The Wings are basically relying on the same core players they were four years ago.  In the meantime, everyone else in the league has been on a quest to get bigger, stronger, faster and more skilled.  The reality is, if you’re not aggressively making moves to get better, someone is probably passing you by.

Talent-wise, I think the Wings are still very good.  But unlike in the past when a one goal deficit merely seemed like they were giving the other team a sporting chance, this year it really seems like a damn near impossible up-hill push,  I never once believed that they would tie the game in the 3rd period.  Worse yet, it’s not the first time I’ve felt that way this year.

This team does some good things.  We’ve talked about how they’re improved defensively and how they’re limiting the shots against and so on.  But man they really need an infusion of talent at the top of their lineup.  I’ll continue to beat the drum on this point. 

Top line.  Five goals combined in sixteen games.  That is a fuching joke.  The New York Islanders look at that shit and laugh.  Embarassing.

Posted by WestWing from Portland, Oregon on 11/16/11 at 01:38 AM ET

Crow's avatar

A square peg relentlessly being pounded into a round hole.  He’s completely miscast.

I think this is true for not only Cleary, but a number of other forwards.  This “One Goal Only”, ” 0-6 PP Futility”,  “Getting Out Worked”, “No players willing to be Physical on the opposition” is getting old.  Trade, promote, demote….Something needs to be done.  Unfortunately, I don’t think Holland and Co. will do anything until after Thanksgiving.

Also, are the players have a hard time adjusting to the two new asst. coaches?  Zets and Dats don’t seem to be buying in.

Posted by Crow on 11/16/11 at 02:10 AM ET

OlderThanChelios's avatar

Tell me you didn’t see it coming…a Blues PP, and a Blues goal within fifteen seconds.

My exact words when the Blues got the PP: “They’ll score in 30 seconds or less.” Then I turned the channel for a few seconds, and when I came back the game was tied. That’s just beyond comprehension.

What the Hell is the problem with Hank Zetterberg and Pavel Datsyuk?

I said this once before and I’ll repeat it now: No one is afraid of Pavel any more. Individual guys attack him like he’s an AHL player. And when was the last time you heard Ken Daniels use the phrase “Datsukian deke” except when describing a replay from a dozen games ago?

I know he was badly shaken by Salei’s death, but could it really be affecting him this much? Is he hurt? Or has he just lost his “swagger?” Whatever it is, it’s a disaster for the Wings.

As for Hank? Well, everyone in the league knows exactly what he’s going to do every time he gets the puck. He’s been completely neutered by his unwillingness to do something other than skate around the back of the net and shoot when he comes out the other side.

And here’s the most obvious “revelation” from tonight’s game: Ericsson isn’t worth one-third of what he’s being paid. He makes more boneheaded plays when he’s not under pressure than Kindl does when he’s surrounded by three forecheckers. If there was a fourth line on defense, he’d be the ninth defenseman right now. I’d rather see Janek on the ice than The Big Error.

Posted by OlderThanChelios from Grand Rapids, MI on 11/16/11 at 02:28 AM ET

WestWing's avatar

Let me reiterate this.

If you’re number one line doesn’t have a single player among the top 215 goal scorers in the league, you have major issues.

Posted by WestWing from Portland, Oregon on 11/16/11 at 02:56 AM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

There’s absolutely no reason for Miller to be languishing in fourth line minutes while working his ass off and watching Cleary cost the Wings the zone time after time after time.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 11/16/11 at 02:59 AM ET

WestWing's avatar

your, not you’re.  I really shouldnt drink so much.

Posted by WestWing from Portland, Oregon on 11/16/11 at 02:59 AM ET

Forlorn in VA's avatar

Pavel has not been the same since he broke his wrist.  I know he said over the summer that it was still bothering him, and I doubt it ever healed right.

Posted by Forlorn in VA on 11/16/11 at 08:33 AM ET

Primis's avatar

I think Cleary COULD work fine on the top line.  Cleary isn’t playing like the Cleary of the past several years though, in that Cleary isn’t playing with any urgency or jam.  For everything said about Cleary, he OUTWORKS guys, that’s a good 80% of his game.  If he’s not outworking people, he unfortunately becomes useless…

Now might be a good time to make that call to GR and see in Tatar would like a shot as a Top 6 forward, or at least to play while someone else moves up for a while.  Or maybe Nyquist again?

We abused Bertuzzi all the way to the IR, but we’ve given Cleary pass after pass… it’s time his butt sits in the press box though until and unless he starts getting some inspired play into his game.  Enough is enough.

Posted by Primis on 11/16/11 at 09:20 AM ET

Rdwings28's avatar

Perhaps it is some of the new coaching. These players have been under one system for about five years, and maybe Babs gave the new guys some liberty with the team that has them confused or still adapting. Whatever it is , a big FIXT is necessary and it’s a short season.

Posted by Rdwings28 on 11/16/11 at 09:34 AM ET

Avatar

I knew this game was over when they gave us the 5 minute numerical advantage.

I knew we wouldn’t score, I knew they’d get momentum, I knew someone (Ericsson, shocking) would go to the box, I knew the PK wouldn’t stop’em, I knew we’d lose focus after that.

Ladies and gentlemen (and RWBill), your 2011-12 Detroit Red Wings.

Posted by Herm from the office on 11/16/11 at 09:48 AM ET

Jeff  OKWingnut's avatar

That was a gawd-awful hockey game.

Chief is right, the Wings got manhandled.

I chalk it up to an off-night.

Lets not forget, DET just destroyed DAL, #1 in WC, and skunked EDM, then #1 in Northwest.

But the fuching special teams are killing DET, an absolute embarrassment.

Way back in the Hossa days, the LB was alive at PP team, hell we would count on them getting at least one a game (during 5-3, we hoped for two in that span).  Now we can pray DET just get a quality chance.  And count on DET giving up at least one/game on the PK.

The special teams are unacceptable.

The fact that no skater will stand up for the team is disgraceful.  It is getting to the point where it is time to ask questions.

Posted by Jeff OKWingnut from Quest for 12 on 11/16/11 at 09:59 AM ET

Jeff  OKWingnut's avatar

^^ too fuching early ^^

the LB was alive at PP

time

Posted by Jeff OKWingnut from Quest for 12 on 11/16/11 at 10:01 AM ET

Avatar

I went to bed after the second period knowing damn well the game was over. There was no way the Wings were going to overcome a one-goal deficit with that effort.

And that’s not the first time this year that’s happened.

Sad.

Posted by Red Winger from work on 11/16/11 at 10:16 AM ET

Rdwings28's avatar

There was no way the Wings were going to overcome a one-goal deficit with that effort.

And that’s not the first time this year that’s happened.

Sad.

Posted by Red Winger from work on 11/16/11 at 08:16 AM ET

I believe you meant to say “lack of effort”

Posted by Rdwings28 on 11/16/11 at 10:43 AM ET

MarkK's avatar

More food for Hitch

Here’s the meat of the matter. Willing to chalk this one up as an off night following all the four and five goal games we’ve just seen, but if it continues there’ll be hell to pay.  Everyone’s a little too comfortable, and we need a big shock in the ass, redolent of the Shanny acquisition.

Posted by MarkK from Maryland on 11/16/11 at 11:06 AM ET

scotts0's avatar

I’ve never gotten Wings fans infatuation with Cleary,  because I have NEVER thought he was good.  Sure, he gets the occasional garbage rebound goal that anyone in a pair of skates standing near the crease can get, but other than what does he do?  He’s not a good skater, and in my opinion, doesn’t have offensive “awareness”.  He, just like Homer should be wallowing in the 3rd/4th line depths.  Filppula is also a joke.  I’ve never seen a player do so little for so many years and yet the organization STILL is holding out for his breakout year?  Are they still gonna be saying that when he’s 35 and barely cracking the 15 goal mark? 

The Wings need to 3rd/4th line Homer, Cleary, Filppula and Hudler(or at least take him off the point on the PP), and integrate Helm, Abby, Miller and Eaves into the top 1st, 2nd and 3rd lines.  How long are these guys going to be the hardest skaters on this team while still sitting on the 3rd/4th lines until they realize they can go somewhere else and actually take part in a 2nd line, or maybe even 1st line?  Then what are Babcock and Holland gonna think when they realize their most consistent players are gone because they never fully appreciated them?

I’m just not liking the way the upper management views things.  I can go on for hours, but I won’t.

Posted by scotts0 from New York on 11/16/11 at 11:08 AM ET

Nathan's avatar

Someone else had to have felt this way so I’m going to bring it up…

Did anyone feel like we had Osgood back in net when Howard made the great save on Steen’s top shelf shot from the high slot, only to give up a goal to Steen seconds later on a weak shot low along the ice?

Obviously Jimmah isn’t the problem right now, the problem is that we are getting no production from #13 and #40. I’m honestly not disappointed with anyone else on the team… I get the points being made about Cleary and Homer, and while they should both score 20 goals this season, they aren’t guys that carry the mail… they are only effective on the scoresheet when #13 and #40 dominate possession so they can do what they do best (puck retrieval in the corners, screen the goalie, tip shots, get in on the opposition D).

We have been incredibly fortunate with the level of consistency we’ve gotten from our two star forwards, game in and game out, since 2006. Think of all the times fans of other teams have whined about inconsistent play from guys like Joe Thornton, Rick Nash, Evgeni Malkin, both the Sedins…

The point is, it happens. We are unrealistically conditioned to think it doesn’t because save for injuries here and there, Pav and Z have brought it almost every game the last six years. I’m not saying the fact that our two best offensive players are in a slump isn’t a huge problem—it obviously is, and it needs to change quickly. What I am saying is I’m reading the comments and seeing a lot of talk that implies that this is something more than a slump. Cut the doom and gloom guys and girls. You’re starting to sound like the offseason writers that always want to be the ones to predict the Wings are finally too old. There’s this crazy infatuation with being the one to call time of death on this team and its various players. It’s crazy to see that same sentiment spring up among a group of Wings fanatics that I know are way more rational than this.

Let’s look at some of the really good things that are happening this season:
- Franzen is a PPG player on pace to score 40 goals
- Filppula is playing, as usual, an almost unnoticed and dominant two-way game, and finally is showing the offensive pop we’ve expected for a few seasons (on pace for 60+ points)
- Nick Lidstrom is truly ageless and might actually look even better in all phases of the game this year than he did last year—and last year was already (by Lidstrom standards only) a “bounce back” from the prior season where he was for the first time ever noticeably below his usual level of play
- Kronwall is continuing to look like the offensive force and team leader we saw surge forward last season—I’d like him to tick up on his offensive pace just a bit, but a lot of his numbers, especially on the PP, are being hurt by the fact his top two forwards are zombies in skates right now
- Ian White is fitting in perfectly… he’s not quite as good as Rafalski was a few seasons ago, but compared to the last couple years I think he’s been an all-around improvement. Not as potent on the PP, but his skating is much stronger and as such his defense has been markedly better than Rafalski’s had been for a few seasons—notice White isn’t forcing Lidstrom into bad spots the way Rafalski had been since he got caught flat footed so much (Lidstrom’s +/- is exhibit A)
- Hudler actually looks like he might be worth his money this year (though I’d still welcome a trade…)
- Last but not least… Jimmah has started the season looking like he’s taken a step forward, playing the best goal the Wings have had anyone play since Osgood’s ‘08 playoffs, and for regular season… probably since Hasek’s first go-round with the club

Posted by Nathan from the scoresheet! on 11/16/11 at 11:12 AM ET

dougie's avatar

I actually turned the sound down lower at first intermission , and read a book, so the the evening would not be a completed waste of time.

Didn’t even need to look up for any replays.

I won’t be losing any sleep to watch the Sharks game, but I’ll try again on Sunday.

Posted by dougie on 11/16/11 at 11:14 AM ET

Nathan's avatar

Posted by scotts0 from New York on 11/16/11 at 09:08 AM ET

Sorry man, but I don’t think you are very perceptive if this is how you feel. Only thing I agree with you on is Homer is at this stage a PP specialist—five-on-five he should be a 3rd/4th liner because his skating has finally deteriorated to the point where his positives at even-strength (puck retrieval) does not overcome it.

Go back and watch the ‘08 Cup final. The fact of the matter was, the way the Wings were playing Pav and Z together at the time gave the Pens a HUGE opportunity to exploit the Wings second line in a match-up of Malkin on Filppula. Watch that series. Filppula quickly shut that down. He is probably the most underrated, unmentioned defensive forward in the game.

Yes, for what he’s paid, he should be a 20/30 player every season, or even a bit better. I don’t disagree he’s offensively underachieved. But he is kept around because he is always reliable defensively, and has even shown he can go up against a much bigger opponent and still do the job, on the biggest stage.

Dan Cleary has had three 20 goal seasons since he came to the Wings (and two others of 14 and 15 goals). This despite the fact that of all the forwards on this team, he’s the one that is plugged in and out of different spots more frequently than anyone else. Not even just game-to-game, but within each game, he is regularly flipped from 3rd line defensive duty to first line net-front duty, to second line shooter duty. No, he is not great at any one thing, but he has made himself into a player that is proficient in everything and that’s an asset.

I will criticize this team where I think it is deserved, but right now I just don’t know how you can criticize anyone other than Pav and Z. They are the ones dragging the team down because they are both slumping hard as star players. Everyone else is carrying their weight (well, maybe not the guy in my avatar), but when your two stars are slacking, it’s difficult to make up for that.

Posted by Nathan from the scoresheet! on 11/16/11 at 11:25 AM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

Jesus, when did this place turn into HFboards?

Cleary has always sucked? Justin Abdelkader is a 2nd liner anywhere else?  We actually want Rick Nash… the guy who willingly signed long-term in Columbus so he could continue to play like a big fish in a small pond?

We lost in a joke of a city against a team playing their own personal game seven on a shitty ice surface and our GA/G went down. Sometimes shit happens.  Sometimes it lasts several games.  Let’s see a show of hands of people who believe Datsyuk and Zetterberg are going to hit their pace of sub-52 point seasons or that they’re going to continue with a shooting percentage below 4.5.

If you have your hand up, use it to slap yourself.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 11/16/11 at 11:30 AM ET

MOWingsfan19's avatar

This has me wanting to slap myself…...
Red Wings coach Mike Babcock is not expecting Jonathan Ericsson to become more offensive-minded while playing with Lidstrom, in the absence of Ian White (fractured cheekbone).

“That (offense) is not what I’m thinking,” Babcock said. “I think he’ll be a good match-up guy, move the puck six feet at a time, and do what you do well — be physical, play hard.”

Posted by MOWingsfan19 from I really like our team on 11/16/11 at 12:10 PM ET

SandysWingingit's avatar

I wanna slap everyone on the team except for maybe Howard. That game was freakin’ pathetic!

Posted by SandysWingingit on 11/16/11 at 12:15 PM ET

MsRedWinger's avatar

I’m not ready to throw this team under the bus yet. 

Obviously special teams are a big concern, but I’m not as concerned with the PK as I am with the PP.  Geezuz, the first power play unit has got to do something more creative than passing the puck around until Nick Lidstrom thinks he has a shooting lane.  At this point, not scoring on the PP may be getting inside the players’ heads, but Nick Lidstrom should ask other guys to step up, take shots, and go to the net, and not think he has to do it all himself.  Won’t work.

Last night was a serious stinker, but I think people are being a little too hard on this team.  The defensive pairings had been switched all around with Ian White out of the line up.  Big E had to switch and play on the other side, for heaven sake.  And then after Kronner went down they had to switch around again.  And as serious as that hit looked, I can imagine the “oh shit” thoughts that were going through the players’ heads as they thought maybe the injury curse was beginning to strike again.

I believe the Wings will “get it fixed,” as Uncle Mike always says.

Posted by MsRedWinger from Flori-duh on 11/16/11 at 12:24 PM ET

BrendonR's avatar

Guys are too comfortable.  And the Chief’s right - we aren’t working with 6 Top Sixers right now.  Cleary on the first line?  No way he belongs there.  Fil has finally been moved to the wing, where he’s showing his true potential, but otherwise we’re lacking up front.  And our big guns are likely tired, dealing with injuries, and above all too comfortable.  JJ - I agree with you on Nash, but we’d be crazy not to want someone like that.  He’s a beast and it would be tough for anyone to be motivated in the suckhole that is the BJ’s.  That guy needs a trade, badly.

All of this makes me care less and less whether we manage to pick up one of Suter or Weber from Bubba - we need a top liner.  Pav and Hank aren’t exactly 25 years old, and though we’re absolutely loaded in our prospects (Nyquist, Tatar, Pulkkinen, Jarnkrok, Jurco, etc…) and our future Top 6 will be ridiculous, the time to win, as always, is now.  Kenny’s been too gentle on this lineup, and he’s got all the cap space in the world to work with.  Not to mention first round picks we don’t need, and all those prospects (though I would hate to part with any of those listed).  Conditions are ripe for a blockbuster Kenny…make it happen and wake these guys the fuch up!!!

Posted by BrendonR on 11/16/11 at 12:24 PM ET

Guilherme's avatar

We actually want Rick Nash… the guy who willingly signed long-term in Columbus so he could continue to play like a big fish in a small pond?

I’ll answer that: hell yeah, I want him. Big fish in small pond, whatever. Franzén can be a shark on a barrell on a night then turns to plancton in the ocean for the next three weeks., you happy with him?

Posted by Guilherme from Brazsil on 11/16/11 at 01:42 PM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

Am I happy with Franzen, who is performing at a point per game and has three times as many goals as anybody else on the Wings (and more than twice as many as Nash has)?

Yes, I am happy with him. If he essentially disappears from the scoresheet for 11 games like Datsyuk has, maybe I’ll get unhappy with him.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 11/16/11 at 02:13 PM ET

Nathan's avatar

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 11/16/11 at 09:30 AM ET

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 11/16/11 at 12:13 PM ET

Thank you. I’m glad someone else has their head on straight and isn’t jumping on the Hasek when we’re not even a quarter of the way into the season…

Posted by Nathan from the scoresheet! on 11/16/11 at 02:23 PM ET

Guilherme's avatar

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 11/16/11 at 12:13 PM ET

Frankly, I have no idea why I threw Franzén in this discussion.

I just have a really big problem with your “the guy who willingly signed long-term in Columbus so he could continue to play like a big fish in a small pond”. Really, the fact that he signed long-term on his team is a bad thing? What the hell?

(also, I’d still trust Nash more than Franzén, on any given night. Mule’s ceiling might be higher, but he can also be horrendous)

Posted by Guilherme from Brazsil on 11/16/11 at 03:27 PM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

I just don’t think Nash has the drive to compete for a contender.  That he hasn’t already demanded a trade out of that horribly-run franchise so he could play for a contender says to me that the guy is happy throwing 30+ goals in net for a team where he doesn’t have to play for free in late April.

That, and he’s overpaid.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 11/16/11 at 03:43 PM ET

Guilherme's avatar

So yeah, let’s complain about the lack of loyalty while complaing about a guy who sticks with his team no matter what.

I’m not saying he’d die for the franchise, but I’m not assuming he’s accomodated, either.

Posted by Guilherme from Brazsil on 11/16/11 at 03:51 PM ET

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Welcome to Abel to Yzerman, a Red Wing blog since 1977.  No other site on the internet has better-researched, fact-laden and better prepared discussions than A2Y.  Re-phrase: we do little research, find facts and stats highly overrated and claim little to no preparation.  There are 19 readers of A2Y. No more, no less. All of them, except maybe one, are juvenile in nature.  Reminding them of that in the comment section will only encourage them to prove that. Your suggestions and critiques are welcome: wphoulihan@gmail.com