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Abel to Yzerman

Nyquist Boned

Well...that's just skippy.  To recap: Mikael Samuelsson, a man who nobody expects to do anything, ever again, ever, is on the roster.  Jordin Tootoo will be "keeping flies off" of...who?  Nobody targets anybody anymore.  He has no value on this team. None. Dan Cleary? I have a hard time with this because he's Charlie Buckets. He is.  But, no.  Not before Gustav Nyquist.

Short term, long term. I don't care. Not a single one of those players deserves a spot before Nyquist.  But, there we are. Why?

Because Ken Holland, of all people, has mismanaged the Cap.

Oh, I know Dr. Pharmacist. I'm not allowed to pick on Tick Tock. It proves my shortsightedness as a fan, a blogger and a patriot.  But it's hard not to break this down to the lowest denominator: the roster the Wings start with Wednesday is not the best team they could put out there and that's not due to injury. 

We all talk all the time about Holland's restraint, about how he and his prolific team of advisors don't make moves for temporary gain.  Well, that's what the re-addition of William Tell turned out to be (at a ridiculous price and length) and it's what the re-signing of Cleary most definitely is. 

Nyquist and Tatar should be on this team.  When you look at whether the most talent is in Detroit, or in Grand Rapids...you can't doubt the fact that dead weight is going to be up while real, legitimate scoring to be down...or over, actually.

And you can throw out all the platitudes and the elitist, above-it-all bullshit about cutting Kenny some slack because the nasty Cap has his hands tied but I'll respond with this: he's getting paid a shit-ton of money to not be affected by that. He's getting paid to maneuver inside the Cap or around it. Good GMs shrug their shoulders and wait for the chance to get Nyquist back up from Grand Rapids.

Great GMs make it happen.  He didn't. He hasn't.

Yes, the team is good...just not as good as it could be if Holland had done his job better.  Is that the best team the Wings could possibly ice? No. If that's not a GM's job description, I don't know what is.

Sammy's not getting traded. Neither is Tootoo. No chance. We'll be dealing with this stupid shit all year long.

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Comments

CaptainDennisPolonich's avatar

Amen. KH has been an average (at best) GM since he decided to throw all that money at Mule rather than making Hossa the priority. But KH is a sacred cow around here…

Posted by CaptainDennisPolonich from The Land of Fake Boobs and Real Nuts on 09/30/13 at 06:50 PM ET

dougie's avatar

Sacred cows make good hamburger

Posted by dougie on 09/30/13 at 06:54 PM ET

Chet's avatar

saw headline, LOL’ed, agreed.

one assumes KH called him and told him not to even get in the car to GR.

Posted by Chet from twitter: thegansen on 09/30/13 at 06:55 PM ET

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There’s short term gain in the Cleary signing?

Posted by Garth on 09/30/13 at 06:57 PM ET

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There’s short term gain in the Cleary signing?

Posted by Garth on 09/30/13 at 06:57 PM ET

Yes, the dozen or so games in the regular season he’ll play well.  That’s your short term.  Plus I’m sure there’s a wink wink part of Cleary’s deal that has him washing Holland’s and Babcock’s cars.  So there’s even long term gain in there for you.

Posted by Valek from Chicago on 09/30/13 at 07:02 PM ET

Kate from Pa.-made in Detroit's avatar

Short term, long term. I don’t care. Not a single one of those players deserves a spot before Nyquist.  But, there we are. Why?

True that, Chief. I cannot see any of those players getting the nod before Ny-Quill. He has proven he belongs in Detroit. He earned his spot. Nothing should be a given. Even for veteran players.

Lets Go Red Wings!!!!!

Posted by Kate from Pa.-made in Detroit on 09/30/13 at 07:11 PM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

Great GMs make it happen.  He didn’t. He hasn’t.


He will though.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 09/30/13 at 07:13 PM ET

soletrain's avatar

every year the wings are plagued with injuries. this year will be no different. Nyquist will play 65+ games. There is no way the Big Bert, Sammy and Cleary will last a full season. NO WAY.

Posted by soletrain on 09/30/13 at 07:22 PM ET

John W.'s avatar

Yes, KH will probably be bailed out when Sammy and Bert get injured and Gus will get to come back up, but that’s not the point.  It’s like Chief said, those dumb ass panic signings last summer are the real problem.  Without them, not only would we have Gus this season, but we’d probably have a Gus with another NHL season under his belt from last year as well.

Posted by John W. from a bubble wrap cocoon on 09/30/13 at 07:43 PM ET

Avatar

I expect 12 goals from Sammy if he can stay healthy. if Alfie goes down 18 and 30 points not out of the question

Posted by jkm2011 on 09/30/13 at 07:45 PM ET

OlderThanChelios's avatar

I guess I should have checked for new posts before I put this in George’s post about the roster changes. But it applies equally to what the Chief is saying…

——————————————————

(It) would almost be better if some of Holland’s decisions had been of the “spin the wheel and do what the wheel says” kinds of things. But it’s obvious they thought long and hard before they signed Sammy to a two-year deal at $3M with a freaking NTC. Same goes for giving Tootoo a three-year deal at $1.9M per. And they thought all summer long before handing Cleary $1.75M when they already had 16 forwards under contract.

So, the bottom line is they made thought-filled (if not thoughtful) decisions in those three cases. IMHO all three of them were really, really dumb decisions. And contrary to what some believe, it is affecting guys like Nyquist and Tatar – two guys who deserve to be on Andy’s line on Wednesday.

Nyquist (apparently) will be in GR and Tatar (apparently) will be in the press box. And the reason is Holland made three bad contract decisions, knowing full-well what the consequences of those decisions would be. That’s what pisses me off the most.

Posted by OlderThanChelios from Grand Rapids, MI on 09/30/13 at 07:49 PM ET

OlderThanChelios's avatar

Nyquist will play 65+ games. There is no way the Big Bert, Sammy and Cleary will last a full season.

People keep saying Gus will be on the roster because one player or another will end up on the LTIR. That will not work – unless the injury is of the known, season-ending variety. Gus can only be called up for one game and still go back to GR when a player comes off of LTIR.

The only way Gus comes back to stay is if at least one player is either traded or has a season-ending injury.

Posted by OlderThanChelios from Grand Rapids, MI on 09/30/13 at 07:53 PM ET

maltby18's avatar

Magical things happen when I use capgeek to bury Sammy’s contract.  Roster space.  Cap space.  Angels sing.  Cold beer begins to rain down from the sky.

Sammy is hurt - can’t buy him out.

Sammy is healthy - can’t LTIR him.  Can’t trade him.

So instead Gus gets the shaft.  Brilliant.

Posted by maltby18 on 09/30/13 at 08:15 PM ET

Down River Dan's avatar

Would I prefer to have Gus up right now instead of Sammy?....yes. I really believe holland planned on buying out Sammy, but of course he was “injured” and that wasn’t possible. What ya gonna do?

I’m sure things will transpire that will allow the young guys to take their rightfully place on the big team. Sammy could get kneecapped by Jeff Goluli in the bowels of JLA? It could happen?

Posted by Down River Dan on 09/30/13 at 08:19 PM ET

creasemonkey's avatar

I think someone needs to kidnap Samuelsson & hide him for the next 9 months. Poof, off to LTIR and unable to do any damage to the Wings this season, yet he’s unharmed so this can’t be taken as wanting malicious harm on him.

Quick, someone find some candy corn.

Posted by creasemonkey from sweet home san diego on 09/30/13 at 08:36 PM ET

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I may be totally off here, but if I understand the cap correctly (big if, considering I was already very badly wrong about it just yesterday) there might be a way to bring Nyquist back up immediately.

The weird moves the Red Wings made today (Mrazek and Coreau swapped; Ouellet called up, Emmerton remains on the roster) were all about getting the Red Wings as close as they could possibly get to the maximum LTIR allowance they could get out of Helm and Eaves. Capgeek has the Wings at $3.3 million over. Helm plus Eaves? $3.325 million.

So, let’s play around here. Tootoo, if I recall correctly, is already eligible to come off short term IR immediately, since it’s retroactive. So let’s say tomorrow, he comes off and Ouellet goes down. The Red Wings just saved ~$600k

And hey, Emmerton’s still here. And since he already cleared waivers, the Red Wings can still send him down without having him clear again. That clears ~$533k and a roster spot.

Between those two moves, the Red Wings should have enough space to call up Nike with about $300k to spare. They could even swap Mrazek and Coreau back again for another $200k.

Could it really be that easy? The way that Holland and Babcock have been talking today, it seems like I must be wrong and that Nyquist is stuck until some piece gets moved or another injury occurs. But then again, if they came out and said “Don’t worry, we’re calling him back up tomorrow” it would upset a league that’s sort of willing to let this sort of screwy circumvention go on as long as nobody draws too much attention to it.

Posted by Sven22 from Grand Rapids on 09/30/13 at 08:42 PM ET

sapper78e's avatar

Didn’t Sammy break Cleary’s jaw with an errant slapper one season? Maybe that’s the plan, Sammy breaks a few of our players with his unguided, dumb-fire slapper, players go on LTIR, thus creating cap space. He can be a “cap space creator” of sorts.

Posted by sapper78e on 09/30/13 at 08:51 PM ET

WingFanFormerlyInLA's avatar

I agree Chief.  I HATED the moves last summer and hate them even more now.  I can deal with Bert as he at least has some scoring touch and adds a bit of muscle around the net.  The other two were just flipping stupid, and the NTC for Sammy makes my eyeballs implode.

The end result is, possibly your best two players in training camp are going to be either in GR or the press box.  I don’t get the hate they have for Tatar, not sure what else the dude can do.

Posted by WingFanFormerlyInLA on 09/30/13 at 09:07 PM ET

joedaiceman's avatar

Dude - Take some Nyquil. This is the same management team that took the Blackhawks further than anyone else in the playoffs. All is not lost.

Posted by joedaiceman on 09/30/13 at 09:11 PM ET

Vladimir16's avatar

Everybody jumps the shark. Everybody. And I think Ken Holland jumped the shark a while ago. Problem I,s Mr. I could give two shits aboot the Wings right now and even if he did I don’t think he’d be too upset: They’re not elite but okay….
Back to Sir Kenny:
Samuelsson (panic) signing makes no sense. What the feck was he thinking? Really, honest question.
Tootoo signing makes no sense. We WILL need someone to keep the flies off in the East…. Tootoo is not that person. He’s a gamer but…
Cleary? Yeah, ummm… wha was the question again

Posted by Vladimir16 from Grand River Valley on 09/30/13 at 09:18 PM ET

Avatar

Man, the whining about Holland never gets less amusing.

To recap, apparently his big screwup is that after signing Alfredsson and Weiss and re-upping Cleary he can’t have Gustav bleeping Nyquist on the day 1 roster.

That’s what you dopes are yowling about.  Gustav Nyquist.

Help me out here… is he even that good?  I’m not saying the guy is awful or anything, but as a primarily offensive player he’s barely managed to be a point per game guy in the AHL and he has 18 points in 54 career games in Detroit.

That’s, like, Val Filppula-type production.  Except without playing center.  And being really good defensively.  And he’s short.  And not fast.  Other than that, though…

So because Holland hasn’t etched out a spot for that on day one, he should be hammered.  Oh, yeah, and he’s ‘jumped the shark’.

But hey, Nyquist had a great camp… with no goals and 4 assists in 6 games.  Yeah, heaven and earth must be moved in order to clear a spot for that kind of talent on the roster.

Let’s slow down the hype train on Nyquist.  Just a skosh.

Posted by HockeyinHD on 09/30/13 at 10:36 PM ET

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But hey, Cleary had a weak camp… with one goal and zero assists in 5 games.  Luckily, heaven and earth were moved in order to clear a spot for that kind of talent on the roster.

Fixed that for you.

Posted by Valek from Chicago on 09/30/13 at 10:55 PM ET

IwoCPO's avatar

Dude. HD, I read your comment in reverse. As. Per. Usual. But I couldn’t get past “skosh”. Because, well, men don’t use that word, Richard.  Below is what I ended up reading. So, you know, good points all around.

blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah…skosh.

Posted by HockeyinHD on 09/30/13 at 10:36 PM ET

Posted by IwoCPO from Sunny San Diego, bitches on 09/30/13 at 10:58 PM ET

Primis's avatar

Master Chief, you’ve pretty much echoed my thoughts and feelings exactly.

A lot of people have been telling me “Ken Holland knows what he’s doing, he’ll get out of the quandry”, but as I’ve reminded them… wouldn’t a really good GM not get into the quandry in the first place?

That’s the rub.  That he’s in this mess, and that he deserves any questioning he gets.

Basically what Holland has done is go for the Cup this year… except the vet guys he’s hanging on to aren’t actually capable of contributing to that goal.  So maaaaaaaybe we as fans need to embrace the idea of Cup Or Bust, so if/when they don’t then Kenny can take the fall for it?

Can I also say, lost in all of this is that Kenny’s Cap man is apparently a moron—you know, the now-heir-apparent to Holland instead of Nill?  If we kept him over Nill, it looks like we made a huge, huge, HUGE mistake.

Posted by Primis on 09/30/13 at 11:27 PM ET

OlderThanChelios's avatar

So, let’s play around here. Tootoo, if I recall correctly, is already eligible to come off short term IR immediately, since it’s retroactive. So let’s say tomorrow, he comes off and Ouellet goes down. The Red Wings just saved ~$600k

And hey, Emmerton’s still here. And since he already cleared waivers, the Red Wings can still send him down without having him clear again. That clears ~$533k and a roster spot.

Between those two moves, the Red Wings should have enough space to call up Nike with about $300k to spare. They could even swap Mrazek and Coreau back again for another $200k.

Could it really be that easy?

Posted by Sven22 from Grand Rapids

I hate to say this to a fellow Grand Rapidian, but no, Sven, it really isn’t that easy. While your scenario works out in the short term, by the time Eaves comes off of LTIR, Gus will have been on the roster for the two games of waiver exemption he has left. So, unless someone else has (magically) ended up on LTIR or a player has been traded, the Wings will be back to 24 guys – and only DeKeyser could be sent down without clearing waivers.

As I said above (and others have said in other posts), the bottom line is this: The only way Gus comes back for more than one game is if at least one player is either traded or has a season-ending injury.

And Primis is dead right about Ryan Martin. It was his job and Holland’s job to avoid the situation they’re in. This mess is entirely of their own making.

Posted by OlderThanChelios from Grand Rapids, MI on 09/30/13 at 11:53 PM ET

Hippy Dave's avatar

Give it two weeks, Chief, and someone will be injured enough to give Gustav is rightful place.

Posted by Hippy Dave from Portland by way of Detroit on 10/01/13 at 01:27 AM ET

Hippy Dave's avatar

(.. and Tatar, for that point, c’mon, it’s the Wings…)

Posted by Hippy Dave from Portland by way of Detroit on 10/01/13 at 01:30 AM ET

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That’s what you dopes are yowling about.  Gustav Nyquist.

Wrong, dummy.

But hey, Nyquist had a great camp… with no goals and 4 assists in 6 games.

Weird that you said, in another thread a few days ago, that you literally didn’t care about the pre-season, yet now you’re using pre-season stats to prove that he’s not good enough.

[Of course, the stats you’re using to prove he’s not good enough are the same stats that put him tied for third on the team in pre-season points (oh, and who is he tied with?  The other odd man out, Tomas Tatar…)]

Posted by Garth on 10/01/13 at 08:40 AM ET

SnLO's avatar

There is something I’m missing: why can’t the Wings just put Sammy on waivers and send him to GR (thereby keeping Nyquist with the first team)?

Posted by SnLO from the sub great-white north on 10/01/13 at 10:26 AM ET

Avatar

Because Sammy is on a 35+ contract which means only 100k of his contract would come off the books.

Posted by Garth on 10/01/13 at 11:13 AM ET

Rumbear's avatar

Posted by sapper78e on 09/30/13 at 08:51 PM ET

Stole my thought!!  Sammy has a purpose. The only thing to add is that he pulls a [insert malady here] on one of his slappers and is, sadly, lost for the season. Ahhhh, the old upper/ lower, body, groinicular, concussion, injury. Tick Tock is an evil genius.

Bring me the Cup. Is that to much to ask?

LGRW !!!!!

Posted by Rumbear from Top O the Hasek, for the 23rd postseason.... on 10/01/13 at 12:46 PM ET

Kate from Pa.-made in Detroit's avatar

The only thing to add is that he pulls a [insert malady here] on one of his slappers and is, sadly, lost for the season.

Posted by Rumbear from Top O the Hasek, I can see Cleary now….. on 10/01/13 at 12:46 PM ET

Pectoral muscle. He hurt his breastesses. Boobie injury.

Lets Go Red Wings!!!!!

Posted by Kate from Pa.-made in Detroit on 10/01/13 at 01:51 PM ET

sapper78e's avatar

I’ve got the solution!  Genetically merge Jordin Tootoo and Tomas Tatar to form Jormas Tootar the Slovakskimo fighting sniper. Think about it we save a roster spot and get a player that can fight, shoot, and pass.  Sighhhhhh…....... then we’d probably waive him to sign Jason Williams back (3rd tour of duty) from the Azerbaijan Hockey League.

Posted by sapper78e on 10/01/13 at 04:03 PM ET

SnLO's avatar

Posted by Garth on 10/01/13 at 11:13 AM ET

thanks

Posted by SnLO from the sub great-white north on 10/01/13 at 06:56 PM ET

Avatar

Posted by sapper78e on 10/01/13 at 04:03 PM ET

I would buy a Tootar sweater.

Posted by Garth on 10/02/13 at 10:10 AM ET

CaptainDennisPolonich's avatar

The only thing to add is that he pulls a [insert malady here] on one of his slappers and is, sadly, lost for the season.
Posted by Rumbear from Top O the Hasek, I can see Cleary now….. on 10/01/13 at 12:46 PM ET
Pectoral muscle. He hurt his breastesses. Boobie injury.
Lets Go Red Wings!!!!!
Posted by Kate from Pa.-made in Detroit on 10/01/13 at 01:51 PM ET

It’ll never happen because it would require the kind of serendipitous good luck that rarely, if ever, falls on the Wings.

Where’s Tonya Harding when you need her?

Posted by CaptainDennisPolonich from The Land of Fake Boobs and Real Nuts on 10/02/13 at 12:28 PM ET

MsRedWinger's avatar

I want Nike! (clap, clap, clap, clap, clap)

Posted by MsRedWinger from Flori-duh on 10/02/13 at 01:33 PM ET

RedMenace's avatar

Posted by sapper78e on 10/01/13 at 04:03 PM ET

If I ever get the chance to create a sports team (fictional or otherwise), I’m going to name it “The Slovakskimo Fighting Snipers.” With your permission (and 10% of the profits?) of course.

Posted by RedMenace from the Church of Jesus Lashoff on 10/02/13 at 02:30 PM ET

SYF's avatar

I’m not sure what Tick Tock’s drinking since the summer FA frenzy started.  I just don’t want any of it.

Posted by SYF from Zata's Epic Viking Beard on 10/02/13 at 07:11 PM ET

PaulinMiamiBeach's avatar

looks like the Wings are welcoming themselves to the Eastern Conference grin

Posted by PaulinMiamiBeach on 10/02/13 at 08:34 PM ET

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Welcome to Abel to Yzerman, a Red Wing blog since 1977.  No other site on the internet has better-researched, fact-laden and better prepared discussions than A2Y.  Re-phrase: we do little research, find facts and stats highly overrated and claim little to no preparation.  There are 19 readers of A2Y. No more, no less. All of them, except maybe one, are juvenile in nature.  Reminding them of that in the comment section will only encourage them to prove that. Your suggestions and critiques are welcome: wphoulihan@gmail.com