Kukla's Korner

Abel to Yzerman

Just When You Thought Dater Couldn’t Get Any Dumber

W.T.F.  Off the California coast in late July and it’s frigging cold.  Somebody (Rummy, Calquake?) sold me a bad bill of frigging goods with this one.  A minor irritation compared to the fact that I just can’t seem to muster a Wing-related thought that doesn’t center around Willa, which is disturbing.  So, we turn to trusty Google and see where it takes me.  A simple news search for The Best Franchise In Hockey usually produces immediate gratification.

Google directed me to Malik at Snapshots who took me to the website for Bettman’s closed circuit TV station. Ready? I know you are. 

What do the following players all have in common?

Getlzaf. Backstrom. Thornton. Koivu (Mikko), Malkin, Richards and Toews. Sedin (Henrik), our boy Dats, and the league’s most illegitimate fraud of a captain (Rosby)?

Well, according to sobbing Dive apologist, flip flopping OLN “writer” and all around biotch Adrienne Dater?  They’re all better centers than Hank Zetterberg. Check out some of the rosy-cheeked, gushing, gobbling praise he lopped on his top ten. 

1. Sidney Crosby, Pittsburgh - Sorry, but you gotta go with The Kid here. Another 100-point season, 56 percent success rate on faceoffs, heroism for Canada in the Olympics, a Stanley Cup the year before that. It’s all been right on schedule for the the player with the biggest buildup since Gretzky.

Aww. Cute.  Little Gary’s got a prize for you Dater.  What you failed to mention, and we will since you left #40 out, is that Zetterberg has owned Thid’s ass in every single man on punk matchup they’ve had.  More times than not, we’ve seen Rosby sputtering and spewing while Z skated away laughing or blew his comments off in the post game presser.  Is Gary’s Baby Boy deserving of a huge mention in this list? Of course. He’s a great offensive talent. But like the rest, he’s not the overall center Zetterberg is.

4. Jonathan Toews, Chicago - Every time you might want to drop this kid down another notch, conscience finally won’t allow it. People look at his point total for last year—68 in 76 games—and wonder if maybe he’s a tad overrated. Uh, no.

The kid is a winner, a leader, a guy I want on the ice in the last two minutes of any close game. Period. He won 57 percent of his faceoffs last year, seventh-best in the league.

I dig Toews. I do. He’s got some characteristics we all find familiar. And, like Gary’s wet dream in Pittsburgh, he absolutely belongs on this list.  However…“a guy I want on the ice in the last two minutes of any close game. Period.” Yeah, ummm.  I’m betting that if Dater, that ambitious scribe, had taken the time to actually ask that question to anyone who legitimately covers the game?  They’d pick Zetterberg when the decision boils down to those criteria.

There’s still this lingering feeling that Malkin is too much of a floater who doesn’t get dirty enough. And yet, you can’t deny the talent or the numbers. The guy won a Cup last year, and put up 36 points in 24 playoff games. By definition, that’s a winning player.

Yeah, dumbass. You just described the anti-Hank. Zetterberg is the guy who NEVER floats and gets dirty every frigging shift.  The best defensive center in the game, and a clutch scorer.  Brilliant analysis.

I thought about dropping him out of the top 10. But not only were the scoring numbers still there last year in the regular season, but Jumbo Joe finally started leading the way to some playoff success.

You should have thought a bit harder Ginger.  Ooooh, he “started leading the way to SOME playoff success.”  That’s nice.  And the Cup total?  Look that up and get back to me.

10. Ryan Getzlaf, Anaheim - Let the outrage begin, fans of Anze Kopitar, Eric Staal, Paul Stastny. Those are three tough omissions right there, but first let’s tout the virtues of Getzlaf sneaking onto this list.

It’s not so bad that he included Getzlaf, a shit bag tool himself, but then he tells “fans of Kopitar, Staal and Stastny” that he understands their outrage?  Seriously, Dater…I’m not sure how you could suck more than that. Now it’s not only ten centers in the NHL who are better than Z.  It’s 13.  Strong work, Adrian. Strong. Frigging. Work.

Perhaps he should travel a bit. I found a guy on River Monsters the other night (actually my wife found it, amazing woman that she is, and recommended I share it with the 19) who probably knows more about hockey than Dater does.

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Comments

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WingsFanInBeanLand's avatar

Pure prose Chief.  Dater can suck it. But that’s par for the course.

Any woman who can pick out a Wings shirt worn by a man in Africa on a show that showcases a guy who likes to land the big fish is a keeper in my book.  Nicely done.

Is it October yet?

Posted by WingsFanInBeanLand from Where the GM likes his team. on 07/24/10 at 12:23 AM ET

Claude from Colorado's avatar

Good think Paul had everyone register for the site so all the childish name calling could come to an end.

Posted by Claude from Colorado on 07/24/10 at 01:00 AM ET

IwoCPO's avatar

Good think Paul had everyone register for the site so all the childish name calling could come to an end.

Posted by Claude from Colorado on 07/23/10 at 11:00 PM ET

No shit.

Posted by IwoCPO from Sunny San Diego, bitches on 07/24/10 at 01:06 AM ET

PuckStopsHere's avatar

NHL.com lists Zetterberg as a left wing.  Zetterberg received all of his post-season all star votes at left wing.  I think Dater considers Zetterberg a left winger (and the league appears to agree).

Posted by PuckStopsHere on 07/24/10 at 01:12 AM ET

AndrewFromAnnArbor's avatar

Just When You Thought Dater Couldn’t Get Any Dumber

Wait, what?  When did anyone think that?

If we could somehow find a way to harness Dater’s idiocy for power?  Boom, there goes the energy crisis in one fell swoop.

Posted by AndrewFromAnnArbor from Fortress Europe on 07/24/10 at 01:12 AM ET

WestWing's avatar

I think Dater considers Zetterberg a left winger (and the league appears to agree).

Great!  So multiple wrongs make a right.  Hell, even when paired on a line with Datsyuk (truly one of the truly great centers in the league), Zetterberg plays, CENTER!!!!

Defend Dater on this if you feel you must, but for fuchsake, get your facts straight and come stronger than that!!!  Zetterberg has played center almost exclusively for the past four seasons. Failure to notice this small but salient fact would only seem to underscore the Chief’s point on this. 

Frankly I don’t care if NHL.com erroneously lists Zetterberg as goaltender for Charlestown Chiefs.  Failure to notice that the man not only plays center but most certainly belongs squarely among the elite of those who do, goes right back to the heart of the very criticism being leveled here!!

Posted by WestWing from Portland, Oregon on 07/24/10 at 01:45 AM ET

Topshlf71's avatar

“On a top-10 overall list of forwards, though, Z is most likely on that list. ”  WTF?  What kind of math is that?  Why am I so f’n aggravted IN JULY?

Posted by Topshlf71 on 07/24/10 at 01:57 AM ET

D4LRob's avatar

Zetterberg has owned Thid’s ass in every single man on punk matchup they’ve had.

This pretty much sums it up.

Posted by D4LRob on 07/24/10 at 02:19 AM ET

Claude from Colorado's avatar

2010 - Hart Trophy Voting

1. Henrik Sedin, VAN 894 (46-34-27-19-4)
2. Alex Ovechkin, WSH 834 (40-35-22-22-13)
3. Sidney Crosby, PIT 729 (20-35-38-29-7)
4. Ryan Miller, BUF 505 (13-22-24-27-20)
5. Ilya Bryzgalov, PHX 354 (13-6-17-22-31)
6. Steven Stamkos, T.B. 28 (0-0-2-3-9)
7. Patrick Kane, CHI 17 (0-1-0-2-4)
8. Martin Brodeur, N.J. 16 (0-0-2-0-6)
9. Craig Anderson, COL 10 (1-0-0-0-0)
10. Patrick Marleau, S.J. 10 (0-0-0-3-1)
11. Nicklas Backstrom, WSH 10 (0-0-0-2-4)
12. Joe Thornton, S.J. 9 (0-0-0-1-6)
13. Zach Parise, N.J. 7 (0-0-1-0-2)
14. Mike Green, WSH 5 (0-0-0-1-2)
15. Zdeno Chara, BOS 3 (0-0-0-1-0)
16. Duncan Keith, CHI 3 (0-0-0-0-3)
17. Drew Doughty, L.A. 2 (0-0-0-0-2)
    Marian Gaborik, NYR 2 (0-0-0-0-2)
    Anze Kopitar, L.A. 2 (0-0-0-0-2)
    Nicklas Lidstrom, DET 2 (0-0-0-0-2)
    Tuukka Rask, BOS 2 (0-0-0-0-2)
    Martin St. Louis, T.B. 2 (0-0-0-0-2)
23. Henrik Lundqvist, NYR 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
    Evgeni Nabokov, S.J. 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
    Chris Pronger, PHI 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
    Paul Stastny, COL 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
    Tomas Vokoun, FLA 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
    Shea Weber, NSH 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
Henrik Zetterberg, DET 1 (0-0-0-0-1)

Posted by Claude from Colorado on 07/24/10 at 03:01 AM ET

D4LRob's avatar

Posted by Claude from Colorado on 07/24/10 at 01:01 AM ET

If we’re playing by your “math” (if that’s what you call it in Colorado) let’s eliminate all the players that aren’t centers. Here’s the abridged version of this year’s Hart voting.

1. Henrik Sedin, VAN 894 (46-34-27-19-4)
3. Sidney Crosby, PIT 729 (20-35-38-29-7)
6. Steven Stamkos, T.B. 28 (0-0-2-3-9)
11. Nicklas Backstrom, WSH 10 (0-0-0-2-4)
12. Joe Thornton, S.J. 9 (0-0-0-1-6)
17. Anze Kopitar, L.A. 2 (0-0-0-0-2)
23. Paul Stastny, COL 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
Henrik Zetterberg, DET 1 (0-0-0-0-1)

That puts Z 7th, at the very worst. Then check this out:

2010 - Selke Trophy voting:

1. Pavel Datsyuk, DET 141 (14-11-6-4-1)
2. Ryan Kesler, VAN 100 (9-6-8-3-1)
3. Jordan Staal, PIT 86 (3-8-7-7-4)
4. Jonathan Toews, CHI 42 (3-2-3-4-2)
5. Mike Richards, PHI   30 (4-0-1-2-3)
6. Alex Burrows, VAN 29 (3-3-0-1-0)
7. Marian Hossa, CHI 15 (0-1-3-1-0)
8. Henrik Zetterberg, DET 14 (0-2-1-1-1)

Nicklas Backstrom, WAS 7 (1-0-0-0-2)
Henrik Sedin, VAN 4 (0-0-1-0-1)
Sidney Crosby, PIT 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
Anze Kopitar, LA 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
Steven Stamkos, TAM 0 (0-0-0-0-0)
Joe Thornton, SJ 0 (0-0-0-0-0)
Paul Stastny, COL 0 (0-0-0-0-0)

All the guys that you think are better than Zetterberg based on their position in the Hart voting didn’t even combine to get more Selke voting points than Z. Know another thing that the rest of that list doesn’t collectively have more than Z? Championship rings.

Seriously, is it October yet?

Posted by D4LRob on 07/24/10 at 03:43 AM ET

mrfluffy's avatar

NHL.com lists Zetterberg as a left wing.  Zetterberg received all of his post-season all star votes at left wing.  I think Dater considers Zetterberg a left winger (and the league appears to agree).

Posted by PuckStopsHere on 07/23/10 at 11:12 PM ET

For a self-proclaimed “Stats are in black and white, and they are the best way to determine…” (and so on and so forth) person, I think you’ll be interested to find that it seems only the NHL thinks Zetterberg is a winger.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/players/2503

http://stats.cbc.ca/nhl/playerstats.asp?id=2503&team=5

http://scores.nbcsports.msnbc.com/nhl/playerstats.asp?id=2503&team=5

Three sources to your one. Of course, nevermind that you obviously haven’t watched any Wings hockey the last couple of years to see where Zetterberg plays on his line.

Posted by mrfluffy from Long Beach on 07/24/10 at 03:43 AM ET

Claude from Colorado's avatar

@D4LRob

Where did I state an opinion at all in my previous post? All i did was post the Hart Trophy voting as food for thought.

So please don’t accuse me of doing anything other than providing a few numbers.

Posted by Claude from Colorado on 07/24/10 at 03:54 AM ET

D4LRob's avatar

Posted by Claude from Colorado on 07/24/10 at 01:54 AM ET

And I just added some additional numbers and removed the unnecessary filler. Let me change my last paragraph so we’re on the same page.

“All of the guys that finished ahead of Zetterberg in the Hart voting didn’t even combine to get more Selke voting points than Z. Know another thing that the rest of that list doesn’t collectively have more than Z? Championship rings.”

My point still stands.

Posted by D4LRob on 07/24/10 at 04:03 AM ET

Chris in A^2's avatar

Dater is an idiot, the weather sucks and this offseason is way too long, so here’s a early Christmas present courtesy of NHL on Hulu: http://www.hulu.com/watch/145705/nhl-games-detroit-red-wings-vs-montreal-canadiens#s-p1-so-i1 .

Posted by Chris in A^2 from Nyquist Puck Control on 07/24/10 at 06:03 AM ET

Moq's avatar

Unless it’s a later addition, the article explains why Zetterberg was left out and predicted Detroit dissatisfaction.

The job was made tougher by the fact that some guys who play center don’t always play center. I give you Henrik Zetterberg for instance. Very often, Hank centers a line, but also very often he plays left wing, usually on a line with Datsyuk. Because of that, I have made the executive, still-sure-to-tick-off-my-friends-from-Detroit decision to leave Zetterberg off this list.

Posted by Moq from Denmark on 07/24/10 at 08:06 AM ET

Baroque's avatar

Unless it’s a later addition, the article explains why Zetterberg was left out and predicted Detroit dissatisfaction.

It wouldn’t surprise me if it was a later edit. It would be typical of a lot of msm pieces to throw up the first draft and then edit later.

And for that matter, Pavel Datsyuk didn’t always play center, either. I think that despite all his defensive ability (and I do really like him), Mikko Koivu might have been better left off the list in favor of Zetterberg. Wait a season or two and see if Koivu actually develops offensively into a true two-way force, or remains a glorified checking center.

Posted by Baroque from Michigan on 07/24/10 at 09:34 AM ET

Baroque's avatar

Heck, I might be inclined to leave Thornton off in favor of Zetterberg, too. And Getzlaf should be ranked higher as well. 10th? He’s a punk douche, but an extremely talented punk douche and can carry a team with more ease than most hockey players at any position. To have him 10th on the list is more silly than leaving Zetterberg off.

Posted by Baroque from Michigan on 07/24/10 at 09:45 AM ET

monkey's avatar

Zetterberg is a center.    There is no question. 

Personally, I will take Zetterberg and Datsyuk ahead of those other guys any day of the week.  They are to dedicated to the team and to winning.

Posted by monkey from Finland on 07/24/10 at 10:31 AM ET

MOWingsfan19's avatar

Arguing with someone from Denver about drivel written by someone from Denver, seems rather pointless even in July.
And Chief, would you grow up and stop the name calling. LOL

Posted by MOWingsfan19 from I really like our team on 07/24/10 at 11:25 AM ET

Osrt's avatar

Heck, I might be inclined to leave Thornton off in favor of Zetterberg, too. And Getzlaf should be ranked higher as well. 10th? He’s a punk douche, but an extremely talented punk douche and can carry a team with more ease than most hockey players at any position. To have him 10th on the list is more silly than leaving Zetterberg off.

Posted by Baroque


I would definitely leave Thornton off the list. That’s not even a question. A heartless hack who produces in the regular season on a very strong offensive team. Woo. But Getzlaf at 10 is *not* dumber than leaving Z off, although still very very dumb. I’d take Getzlaf over most of that list. He’s scary to play against and, as you said, capable of carrying a team.

But not including Zata is the dumber move only because Dater watches the West coast games. If this was a regular East coast writer, it would be part of their regular ignorance but Dater should know better. Yes, I just said that.

Posted by Osrt on 07/24/10 at 12:15 PM ET

Baroque's avatar

@ Osrt -

It is a fair (ish) point that Zetterberg has played wing. Not as much as center, but sometimes. I give him the benefit of the doubt on that point.

What can I say, I’m in a somewhat generous mood this morning. smile

Posted by Baroque from Michigan on 07/24/10 at 01:12 PM ET

D4LRob's avatar

Personally, I will take Zetterberg and Datsyuk ahead of those other guys any day of the week.

As would I. No one else on that list plays two-way hockey like these two do.

Posted by D4LRob on 07/24/10 at 01:13 PM ET

Guilherme's avatar

Hank and Dats all the way.

And for anyone who cares (no one?), this offseason suck has spread to soccer. Corinthians’ head coach just left to take control of the Braszilian national team. His first game will be against USA next month. Shit.

Posted by Guilherme from Brazsil on 07/24/10 at 01:45 PM ET

ITDeuce's avatar

Red Wings will never get the proper amount of respect in the MSM because they play for the Wings.  It’s a sad unfortunate truth.  And as far as Dater goes, I don’t think he would get as many hits if there wasn’t some sort of drama in his article.


Chief you gotta love those early mornings off the Cali coast before the “marine layer” burns off.  They can be downright chilly.  Not Michigan chilly mind you, but chilly just the same.

Posted by ITDeuce from The Sunny High Desert on 07/24/10 at 01:49 PM ET

VooX's avatar

Zetterberg has owned Thid’s ass in every single man on punk matchup they’ve had.  More times than not, we’ve seen Rosby sputtering and spewing while Z skated away laughing

Great stuff, Chief. 

Somewhere in Livonia, Osrt is in his gay-porn studio producing a skin flick with that very same plot.

I just can’t seem to muster a Wing-related thought that doesn’t center around Willa, which is disturbing

Good to hear from you again, sorry to hear about your toothy obsession.

W.T.F.  Off the California coast in late July and it’s frigging cold.  Somebody (Rummy, Calquake?) sold me a bad bill of frigging goods with this one.


Stay warm, sailor.

Seriously… have a safe voyage, Chief, make us proud.  Bring everyone back safely.

Posted by VooX from Behind the Bar in the Hasek Club Car on 07/24/10 at 01:51 PM ET

Behind_Enemy_Lines's avatar

1. Datz
2. Z
3. Datz
4. Z
5 Datz
6. Z
7. Datz
8. Z
9. Helmer
10. Gator

Duh…

Posted by Behind_Enemy_Lines from Evanston,IL on 07/24/10 at 01:52 PM ET

D4LRob's avatar

And as far as Dater goes, I don’t think he would get as many hits if there wasn’t some sort of drama in his article.

And while he’s at it, why not piss off Red Wing fans. Not only will it give him a little Colorado chubby, but it will probably net him more hits than if he went after those on the bandwagons in Chicago and Pittsburgh.

Posted by D4LRob on 07/24/10 at 01:52 PM ET

Guilherme's avatar

Red Wings will never get the proper amount of respect in the MSM because they play for the Wings.  It’s a sad unfortunate truth.

Absolutely, that’s why Babcock will never get another Jack Adams and it’s hard for anyone to win an indivudual prize (other than the Selke Datsyuk Trophy).

Posted by Guilherme from Brazsil on 07/24/10 at 02:08 PM ET

Baroque's avatar

Sorry to holler, but this is important, and you behind-the-timers not on Twitter yet may not have heard ...

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

JENNYQUARX NEEDS TO KNOW TICKET COUNTS FOR H2H2 ASAP! DATE IS SET FOR MARCH 11TH 2011 AGAINST THE EDMONTON OILERS!! EITHER EMAIL HER OR SEND HER A DIRECT MESSAGE VIA TWITTER EVEN IF IT IS TENTATIVE AT THIS EARLY DATE!!!

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

She is @jennyquarx on Twitter. smile

Posted by Baroque from Michigan on 07/24/10 at 02:33 PM ET

Claude from Colorado's avatar

Red Wings will never get the proper amount of respect in the MSM because they play for the Wings.

I forgot how the Red Wings aren’t one of the six teams NBC will show during regular season broadcast. Or the 10 regular season broadcasts they had on Versus last season. Just as many as the Capitals, Flyers and Penguins.

Yup, there’s no interest at all in the MSM in a team which regular generates some of the strongest ratings in the U.S. for an NHL team.

Posted by Claude from Colorado on 07/24/10 at 03:00 PM ET

Avatar

Offense given you’ll. What’s up with the Crosby hate?  I love this kid….he was hyped and delivered.  A captain at age 21.  Sticks up for his team. Has fought for his team. Good on faceoffs now.  Good defensively now.  Anytime he delivers a check, people call him cheap and are all over Pavel and Henrk’s nutz.  Don’t get it.  Hate him because he is not on your team, I udnerstand. Hate hime because you think he is bad for the game or he is not a good player and you lose credibility.  It’s just dumb.

I love Datsyuk and Zetterberg.  I love Getzlaf.  I love Ovechkin.  And I love Crosby.  The hate just legitamizes anyone who says Crosby is the best.  If he were on you’re team and you watched his 82 games…yea, you’d know that this guy is a class act that works his tail off. Does he dive? Yep.  Does he whine? Yep.  Did Gretzky? Yep.  Did Lemieux? Yep. Does anyone who wants to win the game whine to refs here and there? Yep.  So before you yell at bandwagoners, make sure you look at your own wheels.

Posted by Net Master5 on 07/24/10 at 03:15 PM ET

stonehands-78's avatar

Must be July.

Check this out.

Good stuff, all in fun(?). I hope.

Remember: we’re all in this together.

L.G.R.W.

Posted by stonehands-78 from the beginning ... a WingsFan, on 07/24/10 at 03:30 PM ET

jibblescribbits's avatar

You guys saw the part where he didn’t include Zetterberg solely because Zetterberg plays as much LW as C, so he didn’t know where to classify him right?

Posted by jibblescribbits on 07/24/10 at 03:42 PM ET

Osrt's avatar

Somewhere in Livonia, Osrt is in his gay-porn studio producing a skin flick with that very same plot.

Posted by VooX

Livonia? Fuch you dude.

So before you yell at bandwagoners, make sure you look at your own wheels.

Posted by Net Master5

Creative.

Posted by jibblescribbits

Did you see that part in the Stanley Cup playoffs, at least the 2008 and 2009 finals, where Z played center?

Posted by Osrt on 07/24/10 at 04:12 PM ET

jennyquarx's avatar

On behalf of everyone, I’d like to clarify that yes, we all did see what he wrote about Zetterberg.  But it is totally annoying to read articles that are written by people who clearly do not watch very many Wings games.  Z should be on that list.

I wish it was cold here.  It’s hotter than the surface of the sun.

And thanks Baroque.  Most of you have my email address.  I’m just assessing how many tickets we need to have Ryan set aside for us.  No money needed yet.

Posted by jennyquarx on 07/24/10 at 04:17 PM ET

Nate A's avatar

Perhaps I’m mistaken, but doesn’t “floater’ Malkin play the wing about as much as Z?

Posted by Nate A from Detroit-ish on 07/24/10 at 04:30 PM ET

Baroque's avatar

@ Nate A -

I was thinking the same thing, but wasn’t sure of my recollection. In any case, I think it should have included all forwards who played enough time at center to have enough evidence to judge them at that position. Often centers flip around based on matchups, injuries, etc.

Posted by Baroque from Michigan on 07/24/10 at 04:34 PM ET

D4LRob's avatar

Hate hime because you think he is bad for the game or he is not a good player and you lose credibility.

Fail to read the whole post and you lose credibility.

Is Gary’s Baby Boy deserving of a huge mention in this list? Of course. He’s a great offensive talent.

Posted by D4LRob on 07/24/10 at 04:47 PM ET

jibblescribbits's avatar

I didn’t say I thought that, I said that’s why Dater put him there. But of all the grievences on this list: Koivu and Malkin on there are the biggest 2.

Posted by jibblescribbits on 07/24/10 at 04:51 PM ET

Cwix's avatar

Just a quick comment before reading EVERYTHING. Chief, come back to VA. We’ve got you covered…

Posted by Cwix from Grand Rapids, now Roanoke, VA on 07/24/10 at 05:54 PM ET

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About Abel to Yzerman

Welcome to Abel to Yzerman, a Red Wing blog since 1977.  No other site on the internet has better-researched, fact-laden and better prepared discussions than A2Y.  Re-phrase: we do little research, find facts and stats highly overrated and claim little to no preparation.  There are 19 readers of A2Y. No more, no less. All of them, except maybe one, are juvenile in nature.  Reminding them of that in the comment section will only encourage them to prove that. Your suggestions and critiques are welcome: wphoulihan@gmail.com