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Abel to Yzerman

Babcock For Jack Adams Award?

added 10:04am, from Ronnie Shuker of The Hockey News,

Imagine Pittsburgh without Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin, Chicago without Jonathan Toews and Patrick Kane, Anaheim without Ryan Getzlaf and Corey Perry or Vancouver without the Sedins.

That’s the type of hand Detroit has been dealt with its top two stars, Henrik Zetterberg and Pavel Datsyuk, both out at a critical point in the season.

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TreKronor's avatar

But wait.  I thought everyone wanted to fire him?

Posted by TreKronor on 03/21/14 at 10:11 AM ET

bezukov's avatar

Except Babcock goes through this every year and never gets recognition for the Jack Adams.  It’s time to admit that this award actually goes to the coach of the most improved team, which is another way of saying, “congratulations for winning the salary cap game, and piloting this POS into the playoffs.”

Babcock won’t get the recognition he has deserved every years since ‘09 for the man-games lost he deals with year after year.  My money is on Todd Richards if the Jackets make it into the playoffs.

Posted by bezukov from the kids are alright. on 03/21/14 at 10:25 AM ET

MoreShoot's avatar

My money is on Todd Richards if the Jackets make it into the playoffs.

Roy?

Posted by MoreShoot on 03/21/14 at 10:27 AM ET

MOWingsfan19's avatar

Not. Gonna. Happen.

Posted by MOWingsfan19 from I really like our team on 03/21/14 at 10:30 AM ET

bezukov's avatar

Roy?

Posted by MoreShoot on 03/21/14 at 10:27 AM ET

As much as I hate to admit it, he is also a strong candidate.

Posted by bezukov from the kids are alright. on 03/21/14 at 10:36 AM ET

SnLO's avatar

I thought everyone wanted to fire him

I still do, but he is the also the best coach available; not sure who I’d replace him with because Bowman is retired. I guess i would say he is the least worst. Better the devil you know.

Posted by SnLO from the sub great-white north on 03/21/14 at 10:39 AM ET

Hootinani's avatar

Imagine Pittsburgh without Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin, Chicago without Jonathan Toews and Patrick Kane, Anaheim without Ryan Getzlaf and Corey Perry or Vancouver without the Sedins.

and then imagine them without 7-9 other players at the same time, and then you could compare them to the Wings

Posted by Hootinani on 03/21/14 at 10:40 AM ET

RWBill's avatar

and then imagine them without 7-9 other players at the same time, and then you could compare them to the Wings

Posted by Hootinani on 03/21/14 at 10:40 AM ET

That’s what I was screaming too.

Posted by RWBill from the open bar on The Hasek. on 03/21/14 at 10:41 AM ET

Hootinani's avatar

But wait.  I thought everyone wanted to fire him?
Posted by TreKronor on 03/21/14 at 10:11 AM ET

Dont want him fired, just hope when his time in Detroit is up, Blashill gets a serious look

now Holland on the other hand….

Posted by Hootinani on 03/21/14 at 10:42 AM ET

SnLO's avatar

imagine them without 7-9 other players

i’m not sure the composition, but only Pits has more man-games lost this season than Det. So, Bylsma has been doing some good managing to keep his team competitive this year too.

Posted by SnLO from the sub great-white north on 03/21/14 at 10:45 AM ET

RWBill's avatar

Remember, some thought the players had tuned out Babcock five games into the lockout-shortened season last January, and had also previously tuned him out the season before that.  And before that.

Babcock should be in serious consideration because no other coach has had to mix, match and place such a seismic disruption of available roster on a nightly basis and scheme it against healthy teams’ line ups, but being Detroit he won’t get the recognition due.

Colorado has a great year going, but from an actual coaching perspective not nearly the daily challenge Babcock has had.

Posted by RWBill from the open bar on The Hasek. on 03/21/14 at 10:48 AM ET

Vladimir16's avatar

Dont want him fired, just hope when his time in Detroit is up, Blashill gets a serious look

now Holland on the other hand….
   
    Posted by
     
    Hootinani
     
      on 03/21/14 at 10:42 AM ET

This ^^^^

Posted by Vladimir16 from Grand River Valley on 03/21/14 at 10:56 AM ET

RWBill's avatar

i’m not sure the composition, but only Pits has more man-games lost this season than Det. So, Bylsma has been doing some good managing to keep his team competitive this year too.

Posted by SnLO from the sub great-white north on 03/21/14 at 10:45 AM ET

This isn’t a thorough analysis, but Crosby and Malkin have played a combined 127 games, with the league’s leading scorer and likely league MVP Crosby available and playing in 69 of 69 games, and Malkin 58.

Zetterberg and Datsyuk have played in a combined 84 games.  Detroit has played 24 games without Zetterberg and 30 games without Datsyuk.  How many have they been missing both?  I dunno exactly, a few sometime before the Olympics and most every game since.

Posted by RWBill from the open bar on The Hasek. on 03/21/14 at 10:59 AM ET

RWBill's avatar

Is Legwand’s penalty going to be reviewed by the NHL for additional punishment?  I don’t see anything on the NHL website.

Posted by RWBill from the open bar on The Hasek. on 03/21/14 at 11:08 AM ET

Paul's avatar

RWBill, No.

Posted by Paul from Motown Area on 03/21/14 at 11:09 AM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

Babcock will either win it in the year there’s not a compelling boutique candidate (Roy, Berube, Richards), he’ll coach long enough to miss the playoffs and become a weird boutique candidate of his own, or he’ll finally earn it as a lifetime achievement award in the year when all the other options are kind of shitty.

He should have won it already. At this point, I no longer care if he gets the recognition for it.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 03/21/14 at 11:10 AM ET

perfection's avatar

I agree he should has won it already. I think Roy was probably the leading candidate most of the year but with each injury it becomes more competitive. IF the Wings make the playoffs it’ll be hard not to give it to Babs. And don’t think it won’t be in the back of people’s minds that he also ran out and got a gold medal on his vacation in the middle of the most impressive coaching display of his career. It shouldn’t factor in but it does add to the overall impression of the man. The ironic thing is he seemed to get the Canadian stars and our kids to essentially play the same way. And hopefully it keeps working.

Posted by perfection from LaLaLand on 03/21/14 at 11:26 AM ET

SnLO's avatar

Posted by RWBill from the open bar on The Hasek. on 03/21/14 at 10:59 AM ET

I understand your point, albeit a valid one; but I suppose I didn’t do a good job making mine: I read a lot of the woes relative to the Wings injury situation and (top two players aside) I think what gets lost is that the Wings are still like 100 man-games lost behind Pit. At one point not long ago, I was thinking the Wings had it really bad on the injury front, to only recently learn another team has had it worse, and they are still competing at the top of the league, not just to make the playoffs. That aside, I am curious the position the Pens would be in if they were without their top two players equal the Wings situation.

But, the Jack Adams Trophy goes to the coach of either the most improved team or the most successful underdog, not to the best performing team.

Posted by SnLO from the sub great-white north on 03/21/14 at 11:29 AM ET

pgoody's avatar

It’s time to admit that this award actually goes to the coach of the most improved team, which is another way of saying, “congratulations for winning the salary cap game, and piloting this POS into the playoffs.”

haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Posted by pgoody on 03/21/14 at 11:43 AM ET

Avatar

You also have to look at who is injured. Wings have been without their starting goalie a bit. Pens lost their backup before the year started and replaced him. $2M worth of cap and 65 games right there. And the Pens are 100 up on man games lost and still don’t have the salary lost Detroit has. Whose injuries have been worse?

Posted by teldar on 03/21/14 at 11:53 AM ET

perfection's avatar

We are the most successful underdog by far. An almost entirely AHL team making the playoffs with this much tight competition would be an epic achievement. I don’t think Babs will be overlooked for it either. There’s always been an excuse - te wings are too good, we have lids or Pav or Z, etc. there are no excuses this year. Babs has a bunch of raw youth and he’s milking them for everything they’ve got

Posted by perfection from LaLaLand on 03/21/14 at 11:55 AM ET

Avatar

Only knock on him this year was his insistence on using vets over kids. If gus is up at the beginning of the year he could have ended the season with 30 goals and maybe we win a few more close games and arent in situation were in now.

Posted by brians neck on 03/21/14 at 11:56 AM ET

Avatar

only recently learn another team has had it worse

I guess it depends on how you define “worse”.  Pittsburgh has lost more net games, but they’ve had their top two players for the vast majority of the season.

Crosby has missed zero games and Malkin 11.  Detroit has been without both Datsyuk and Zetterberg for more games than Pittsburgh has been without just Malkin.

Posted by Garth on 03/21/14 at 12:00 PM ET

RWBill's avatar

RWBill, No.

Posted by Paul from Motown Area on 03/21/14 at 11:09 AM ET

Thanks Paul.

Posted by RWBill from the open bar on The Hasek. on 03/21/14 at 12:03 PM ET

SnLO's avatar

Posted by teldar on 03/21/14 at 11:53 AM ET

good point. I would only discount that cost of salary does not equal quality of player; see Brad Richards, Brian Campbell, Scott Gomez, etc.

Posted by SnLO from the sub great-white north on 03/21/14 at 12:06 PM ET

RWBill's avatar


Only knock on him this year was his insistence on using vets over kids. If gus is up at the beginning of the year he could have ended the season with 30 goals and maybe we win a few more close games and arent in situation were in now.

Posted by brians neck on 03/21/14 at 11:56 AM ET

Babcock could not start Gus at the beginning of the year.  That was a roster and cap issue that Babcock could not change.  That preference for vets over budding NHL’ers is a common knock on the franchise with a good deal of justification, but Babcock is also the one who scratched a healthy Bertuzzi and Cleary in favor of Jurco, Glendening, Sheahan.

Posted by RWBill from the open bar on The Hasek. on 03/21/14 at 12:08 PM ET

Avatar

f gus is up at the beginning of the year he could have ended the season with 30 goals and maybe we win a few more close games and arent in situation were in now.

Very true.  Nyquist’s point-share through 44 games this year is 5.6, meaning he’s been worth 0.127 points in the standings per game.  He was called up after the 22nd game of the year.  Having him around and—here’s a big assumption—producing at his present level for those 22 games translates to about 2.8 points, which very well could wind up being the difference between making the playoffs and missing them this year, or the difference between a wildcard spot and a division spot.

(Of course we’d need to remove someone’s production who did play in those 22 games, but we have 4 forwards who have played 20 games or more with a negative pointshare, so it’s possible we would’ve had both addition by addition and addition by subtraction and be 3+ points better off.  Actually, it is remarkable how many forwards we have who are negative in offensive point share—which I believe means below theoretical replacement value.  Seven such forwards have dressed for 15 or more games for Detroit this year.)

That said, it is a VERY optimistic assumption.  Nyquist wouldn’t have gotten 18 minutes a game at the start of the year, and the current tear he’s on certainly relates to first-line usage (it may also reflect a boost in confidence after the Olympics).  To hedge we should probably cut the assumption in half—he’d have been worth about 1.5 points in the standings, still a material benefit, though.

Posted by captaineclectic on 03/21/14 at 12:19 PM ET

Avatar

Babcock could not start Gus at the beginning of the year.  That was a roster and cap issue that Babcock could not change.

But he could have started Tatar -who had, if not THE best, one of the best pre-seasons on the entire team- over Samuelsson.  That was a roster decision that Babcock was in complete control of.

He also said that the tie goes to the veteran, which is fine, but then pretended that the best forward and one of the worst forwards in the preseason were “tied”.

Posted by Garth on 03/21/14 at 12:19 PM ET

Avatar

But he could have started Tatar

This is true, but of much less significance than the Nyquist absence.

Tatar has played in 60 games and has a 3.5 point share.  He’s worth .058 standings points per game.  I don’t recall whether he’s missed an odd game due to injury, but assuming he played 8 more games we’d have less than half an extra point—we can bump it up to half a point if we assume he replaced Sammy, who’s got a negative total point share for the year.  That’s small enough that randomness probably wipes it out.

Posted by captaineclectic on 03/21/14 at 12:26 PM ET

SYF's avatar

Babcock’s not gonna win it.  Not with Eddie Olcsux having a vote.

Posted by SYF from the team that re-signed KFQ and DFC by KFH on 03/21/14 at 12:31 PM ET

Down River Dan's avatar

Let’s wait and ask Babs if he cares about coach of the year before game 1 of the playoffs.

Cause I’m saying today they are gonna be IN and not with a wildcard spot either. I believe they will catch the Habs and get the 3 spot!! Book it!!

Posted by Down River Dan on 03/21/14 at 01:11 PM ET

Avatar

This is true, but of much less significance than the Nyquist absence.

But it’s evidence of Babcock choosing older players over younger players.

Posted by Garth on 03/21/14 at 01:13 PM ET

Avatar

Yes babcock couldnt play gus at the start of the year because of roster and cap issues that he help create.

Posted by brians neck on 03/21/14 at 01:14 PM ET

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Not with Eddie Olcsux having a vote.

You figure it will be close enough that one vote makes a difference?

Posted by Garth on 03/21/14 at 01:18 PM ET

Avatar

But it’s evidence of Babcock choosing older players over younger players.

Yes.

Posted by captaineclectic on 03/21/14 at 01:48 PM ET

SYF's avatar

You figure it will be close enough that one vote makes a difference?

Posted by Garth on 03/21/14 at 01:18 PM ET

The point being is that the award is voted on by broadcasters, not by coaching peers.

Posted by SYF from the team that re-signed KFQ and DFC by KFH on 03/21/14 at 01:53 PM ET

Avatar

The point being is that the award is voted on by broadcasters, not by coaching peers.

Ed Olczyk controls how the rest of the broadcasters vote?

Posted by Garth on 03/21/14 at 02:02 PM ET

TreKronor's avatar

Ed Olczyk controls how the rest of the broadcasters vote?

Posted by Garth on 03/21/14 at 02:02 PM ET

No, but Olczyk doesn’t see the game through the eyes of a coach.  Nor does a good portion of the media, otherwise they’d be coaching.  Pierre McGuire included.

Posted by TreKronor on 03/21/14 at 02:47 PM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

No, but Olczyk doesn’t see the game through the eyes of a coach.

I don’t know about that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Olczyk#Coaching_record

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 03/21/14 at 03:04 PM ET

TreKronor's avatar

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 03/21/14 at 03:04 PM ET

I guess I should have said, “doesn’t see the game through the eyes of a SUCCESSFUL coach.”  31-64-10 as a coach…...whoooo baby.

Posted by TreKronor on 03/21/14 at 03:11 PM ET

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Welcome to Abel to Yzerman, a Red Wing blog since 1977.  No other site on the internet has better-researched, fact-laden and better prepared discussions than A2Y.  Re-phrase: we do little research, find facts and stats highly overrated and claim little to no preparation.  There are 19 readers of A2Y. No more, no less. All of them, except maybe one, are juvenile in nature.  Reminding them of that in the comment section will only encourage them to prove that. Your suggestions and critiques are welcome: wphoulihan@gmail.com