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Abel to Yzerman

Asleep At The Switch

All I know is this: one year ago, two years ago, three years ago?  Detroit featured three of the best five players in the world.  Some seasoning may have meant Cup #12.  Some aggression at the deadline could have landed a piece like Iginla (I said "like") and we never would have heard of, for instance, Tatar or Nyquist again.  But at least the effort would have been there.

Ken Holland holds on to the Nicastros and the Teletubbies and the Youtube sensations, the junior World Cup superstars...while Ray Shero is dealing in real talent, for real Cups.

Was Detroit even a remote destination for Jarome Iginla? Nope.  But I'll bet we kicked Feaster's tire, though...right?  One little kick? A little swipe and then move over for Ray, boy.

Tick Tock. Talent to waste, years to wave goodbye to Kenny.  Russia's calling Pavel home.

All this Iginla deal does, as far as we're concerned, is remind Wing fans of the "we like our teams" and "the cost was too steep", the "getting ______ back is like a deadline deal".  Honestly, I'm tired of hearing the bullshit alibis as to why this team can't be improved.  Shero improves his. He's aggressive every year. Every year since '08 he's been daring.  Has it always paid off? Nope.  But there he is...in the arena, while Ken Holland kicks tires.

Get us DeKeyser, Kenny.  I'm looking forward to the over-ripening stories the next four years until he gets to Detroit.

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stonehands-78's avatar

“ducking” ... “sucking” ... is there a difference?

Posted by stonehands-78 from the beginning ... a WingsFan, on 03/28/13 at 05:31 PM ET

CaptainDennisPolonich's avatar

The pens got that depth by ducking and getting 5 top 5 picks in a row
Did you mean “by sucking”?
Posted by RWBill from the open bar on The Hasek. on 03/28/13 at 05:26 PM ET

Ya gotta duck to suck.  grin

Posted by CaptainDennisPolonich from The Land of Fake Boobs and Real Nuts on 03/28/13 at 05:31 PM ET

Avatar

If what you really want is for the kids to get some time in the playoffs then the best thing to do would be to ship out Filppula, Cleary and White so that there’s room to give real chances to young guys, with at least one of them getting a chance to play in a top six role.

I’m not sure the Wings have much of a chance of going deep (though I think they can definitely win a round), but I also don’t think that losing Filppula would really hamper them much either and I think trading him would give Nyquist or Tatar a chance to play top line minutes and really see what they’re made of.  And I think getting rid of Cleary would allow the other of Tatar and Nyquist (whichever doesn’t play top line minutes) to play third line minutes with Eaves and either Helm or Andersson.

Posted by Garth on 03/28/13 at 06:08 PM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

Posted by Garth on 03/28/13 at 06:08 PM ET

I’d much rather dump Cleary and somebody lower on the depth chart to make room. With how well Andersson has done PKing lately, Eaves may just find himself as an odd-man out. I’m also starting to wonder what pending UFA Drew Miller is going to draw this offseason, as he’s been playing well this season as a defensive winger with just a little bit of finish who can inconsistently play like a skinny power forward.

I’m not confident Nyquist and Tatar are ready to both take top six minutes. Clearing out some other space leaves us enough flexibility to use one of them regularly on the top line and even use Flip as the third line center to playmake for another of them against weaker competition. I don’t have any problem with Andersson and Emmerton both playing on the fourth line or moving one of them for really not much less than (and possibly even more than) you’d get for Flip.

Flip likely isn’t the difference maker between a long run and a short run, but the team is better right now with him in the lineup than they are with him elsewhere. I don’t think the “something” they’d get for him right now is so much better for the Wings in the long run to make up for that.

Hilariously, if the Wings were to do all of this, I think that would constitute a fair amount of “shake-up” in how the Wings operate currently to qualify for the at-least-they-did-SOMETHING award.

It’s not going to turn them into cup favorites or anything, but it would at least look like there’s more of a plan than it appears we’ve seen lately.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 03/28/13 at 08:00 PM ET

Avatar

I’m not confident Nyquist and Tatar are ready to both take top six minutes.

There’s only one way to find out, and that way is not to bring them up to play on the third line.

or moving one of them for really not much less than (and possibly even more than) you’d get for Flip.

OK, now you’re talking crazy talk.  You don’t honestly think there’d be nobody interested in Filppula if he were made available?

Posted by Garth on 03/28/13 at 08:41 PM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

There’s only one way to find out, and that way is not to bring them up to play on the third line.

That’s not true. There are plenty of times we’ve watched people on the third and fourth lines and have gotten a pretty good idea that they were ready for bigger minutes. It happened with both Datsyuk and Zetterberg.

The problem has been giving them those minutes once it’s clear they’ve earned them; it’s not about just thrusting them into the minutes and watching them disappear until they figure it out.

OK, now you’re talking crazy talk.  You don’t honestly think there’d be nobody interested in Filppula if he were made available?

I didn’t say there’d be nobody interested. I’m saying that Filppula’s trade value right now isn’t insanely high. Ryane Clowe probably pulls more on the trade market than Filppula right now because despite that Filppula’s playoff performances have been good, Clowe brings that bullshit “grit” that makes being worse at a forward’s job ok for GMs.

There’s a semi-decent chance that some dummy GM sees Cory Emmerton as a younger guy with upside who has one more year at a very low cap hit and is then an RFA and offers not-terrible-incomparable value (despite that Filppula is a MUCH better player).

Bottom line is I wouldn’t sell Filppula just because somebody’s interested. I’d have to actually like what comes back. I’d have to like that more than the trade-off between what I think Filppula returns and what I think moving somebody below him on the depth chart returns because keeping Filppula makes the Wings better.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 03/28/13 at 08:54 PM ET

gt500x's avatar

It’s not going to turn them into cup favorites or anything, but it would at least look like there’s more of a plan than it appears we’ve seen lately.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 03/28/13 at 08:00 PM ET

Sure there are other teams that definitely look better than ours on paper and past playoff exits have shown us that this team doesn’t have what it takes to go deep but all that the Wings have to do is be good enough to get into the playoffs—we still have a shot at the cup.  So fret not about Holland’s lack of significant moves made…

Posted by gt500x on 03/28/13 at 09:03 PM ET

gt500x's avatar

I forgot to add that I’m not a fan of Holland’s plan—I hate it even—but I hope it pays off still.

Posted by gt500x on 03/28/13 at 09:06 PM ET

Avatar

Bottom line is I wouldn’t sell Filppula just because somebody’s interested.

I agree, I just think it wouldn’t hurt for Holland to be actively dangling him to see what’s available.  Of course, we appear to disagree on how much Filppula is worth, so that’s going to influence what we each think is fair value.

There are plenty of times we’ve watched people on the third and fourth lines and have gotten a pretty good idea that they were ready for bigger minutes.

Like when Tomas Tatar played on the third line and showed some great offensive flashes and was then sent back down to Grand Rapids instead of being given a shot (an actual shot, not a shift or two) to play on a top two line.

The flaw in your argument about both Datsyuk and Zetterberg though, is that while they played on the third line, that was a pre-Cap team that was stacked, stacked, stacked with talent AND Detroit made room for them to play in the NHL immediately.  Neither one of them was brought from overseas and stashed in GR to “over ripen”.

In Zetterberg’s first pro season he played 79 games, and while he didn’t play on a top two line, he was playing on a veritable All-Star team, with Fedorov, Shanahan, Hull, Datsyuk, Larionov, and Robitaille ahead of him on the depth chart.

Nyquist is playing on the third line (and Tatar is in Grand Rapids) on a Detroit team that has the likes of Abdelkader, Miller and Cleary ahead of them on the depth chart of a injury depleted team.  If the team was healthy they wouldn’t even have had a sniff at any NHL time.

It would be nice if they didn’t only get their chances because of injuries.

Posted by Garth on 03/28/13 at 11:17 PM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

The flaw in your argument about both Datsyuk and Zetterberg though, is that while they played on the third line, that was a pre-Cap team that was stacked, stacked, stacked with talent AND Detroit made room for them to play in the NHL immediately.  Neither one of them was brought from overseas and stashed in GR to “over ripen”.

This is true. I probably should have used Filppula and Franzen as my example.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 03/29/13 at 01:38 AM ET

Avatar

This is true. I probably should have used Filppula and Franzen as my example.

Fair enough, that’s true.

Posted by Garth on 03/29/13 at 01:33 PM ET

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Welcome to Abel to Yzerman, a Red Wing blog since 1977.  No other site on the internet has better-researched, fact-laden and better prepared discussions than A2Y.  Re-phrase: we do little research, find facts and stats highly overrated and claim little to no preparation.  There are 19 readers of A2Y. No more, no less. All of them, except maybe one, are juvenile in nature.  Reminding them of that in the comment section will only encourage them to prove that. Your suggestions and critiques are welcome: wphoulihan@gmail.com