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Abel to Yzerman

Wings Fans Are Doomed

No one outside the Greater Toronto Area was under any illusion as to the quality of the Leafs, but this is really pulling back the curtain on how good Detroit isn't.

They're just not built for success in this league any more.

_Ryan Lambert of PuckDaddy where you can read the rest of this on Festivus Day.

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Comments

Hank1974's avatar

I’m not drinking the koolaid. I’m fully aware of what Detroit is, and that’s not a Cup contender.
However, considering the Wings didn’t have Zetts, Franzen, Helm, Nyquist, Howard and Weiss in the lineup, I’d like to think we are better than the team that showed up on Saturday night.

People seem to forget that we had the same basic lineup during their exhibition tilt, where the Leafs dressed their starting roster and the Wings had 1 NHL line and 3 AHL lines and we still gave them fits.

When the Wings (hopefully) get healthy, I can see this team finishing in the top 4 of the East and making some noise in the playoffs - especially when you consider how weak the East is.

They’re not on par with the Penguins, Bruins and probably 6 to 8 of the Western Teams, but they’re not as bad as what Lambert thinks.

Posted by Hank1974 on 12/23/13 at 01:31 PM ET

DrD's avatar

Are teams bot allowed to rebuild anymore? This team is clearly in transition and yes, they are pretty mediocre right now, but let’s see where Pittsburgh is when Malkin and Crosby have retired…that’s when you can judge their drafting more fairly. The Wings are developing some nice young talent, contracts of older players are expiring and everything is pointing to this team ultimately getting younger, bigger and better - look at the guys they drafted most recently big, big men…I think they got the memo about the need to be bigger in this league. Whoever wrote this article is just lazy - you don’t learn anything about an organization by watching 24/7…it’s entertaining, but it’s just a snapshot in time. Toronto on the other hand…yup, “doomed” is not far off the mark. The team is mediocre and the cupboards are pretty bare.

Posted by DrD on 12/23/13 at 01:32 PM ET

Down River Dan's avatar

I clicked through and read the piece, but I’m not sure what the point of his thesis was?

The Wings are banged up and not winning?

The type of players they have on the roster are the reason for the injuries?

I guess if Pavel, Abdelkader, Franzen had all been 6’4” 250 lbs then their brains wouldn’t have been rattled around in their skulls quite as severely ???


All the pundits and haters have been waiting years/decades for the inevitable “drop off”  in the teams dominance.

Well, if you say it every year , then eventually you’ll be right….......eventually ......I guess???


Please don’t compare the Pittsburgh injuries to detroit sand then say , well Pittsburgh is still winning!


Please!......I know some Pee Wee teams that would be over .500 playing in the metro division.


Please wait until the Seasons End before writing the Wings epitaph ......Again…..

Posted by Down River Dan on 12/23/13 at 01:34 PM ET

SYF's avatar

It’s Ryan fuchwit Lambert.  ‘Nuff said.

Posted by SYF from the team that re-signed KFQ and DFC by KFH on 12/23/13 at 01:45 PM ET

Sunday's avatar

It’s possible that Lambert may have some useful bit of information in there, or some well-thought-out analysis, but I can never get past his inevitably sour tone and downright bitter nastiness.  His personality (I guess that’s what it is) speaks so loudly that I can’t hear what he’s saying.

Posted by Sunday from somewhere else on 12/23/13 at 01:45 PM ET

MoreShoot's avatar

blah blah blah.  Meanwhile, nice piece on Marchenko in RWC http://www.redwingscentral.com/2013/12/23/4323/marchenko-making-his-mark-in-grand-rapids/

Really miss having a Russian D-man.

Posted by MoreShoot on 12/23/13 at 01:47 PM ET

Kate from Pa.-made in Detroit's avatar

Who is Ryan Lambert? What is Puck Daddy? wink

Lets Go Red Wings!!!!!

Posted by Kate from Pa.-made in Detroit on 12/23/13 at 01:53 PM ET

DrD's avatar

Never heard of this Lambert clown until this article…now I know to not waste my time if I see his name again.

Posted by DrD on 12/23/13 at 02:02 PM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

There’s an irresponsible amount of context being ignored here to reach a narrative.  If Ryan Lambert were to Ryan Lambert this article, he’d find lots of things to make fun of about it.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 12/23/13 at 02:07 PM ET

Zqto's avatar

Not even gonna bother clicking on the link

I guess when you are the only team to take the last stanley cup champions to 7 games, you are not “built for success” anymore, even after your team loses a few games, but still has a playoff spot, with 8 regulars on injury list…
Yep, we are DOOMED!!

We gotta remind we are in a cap era, and we can’t rely on 20 future hall of famers as we used to… Seriously, taking Samuelson out of this lineup, I’m perfectly content

Even Cleary I can take, the bastard gets carried on the regular season, but carries back as much as anyone once the playoff starts

If anything, I’m proud of this team, so far

Posted by Zqto on 12/23/13 at 02:14 PM ET

MsRedWinger's avatar

I’m not biting. Not no way.  Not no how.  I never read that guy’s crap.  Because it’s always crap.

Posted by MsRedWinger from Flori-duh on 12/23/13 at 02:50 PM ET

Avatar

I have to say I alternate on Cleary. Some days i think he should be jettisoned, others I think there is something to veteran leadership angle, like Dallas drake. But I think the Wings could do more with the roster spot and cap space than what he provides.
Bert brings something nobody else brings. Deterrence. If they had a deterrent and more able skill in the same package, great. Without it, though, I think Bert serves a purpose.
  Sammy provides nothing. Less than Tootoo or eaves. Even Emmerton.

Posted by teldar on 12/23/13 at 02:52 PM ET

bezukov's avatar

Not another envy screed from the guys at Fuch Puddy, presented by a minor news outlet!  As always, the burn from these guys is that much worse, because they “don’t hate our team, they hate our team’s fans.”  How am I supposed to respond to such a personal indictment?  One premised upon something in between a distinction without a difference and an insult to my intelligence?  It’s too much to bear my friends.  I for one, have again been shaken to my foundation by the guys who resort to making jokes out of crippling car accidents

Please tell me, fellow Wings fans, how you salve over the wounds inflicted by the man who makes shit up about Wings fans just so he enjoy a day of relevancy every couple of months).  Seriously, does anyone here know a Wings fan that regards McClellan or MacLean as traitors?

God’s wounds!  Who can cleanse me of this most original of sins, being a Wings fan? 


———————————————————-
Why we dignify a blog written by a high school journalism class on this site still baffles me.

Posted by bezukov from the kids are alright. on 12/23/13 at 02:54 PM ET

Avatar

I clicked through and read the piece, but I’m not sure what the point of his thesis was?

The Wings are banged up and not winning?

The type of players they have on the roster are the reason for the injuries?

I guess if Pavel, Abdelkader, Franzen had all been 6’4” 250 lbs then their brains wouldn’t have been rattled around in their skulls quite as severely ???

His point is that the Wings are not terribly well constructed, and actually haven’t been for a few years.  Any team is going to struggle with that many injuries, or playing without Zetterberg and Datsyuk, but the rest of the players missing should be easier to replace for shorter periods of time.  And in a couple of cases the fact that the player is missing time due to injury shouldn’t be a surprise or considered bad luck. 

It’s true in any sport but it’s especially true in the NHL: if the success of your season hinges on everyone staying healthy then your season is probably not going to go well.  Injuries happen to just about every team in every sport and the best teams have the depth at either the major or minor league level to absorb those injuries without completely falling apart.  There are some notable exceptions, ie players who are so valuable (and so expensive) that their contributions simply can not be duplicated, but those are rare cases.

Posted by RoneFace on 12/23/13 at 02:58 PM ET

WingsFanInBeanLand's avatar

Fuch Lambert and the Greg Wyshynsky he rode bareback in on.

Didn’t even bother to click on link.

Posted by WingsFanInBeanLand from where free agents no longer dare. on 12/23/13 at 03:03 PM ET

bezukov's avatar

His point is that the Wings are not terribly well constructed, and actually haven’t been for a few years. 

The thing that kills me about PD is the constant straw man attacks they send our way.  Wing’s fans admit this about our team (see the two to three year old argument over Ken Holland), yet we’re attacked by these guys as boastful and unrealistic. 

Are we arrogant? Probably.  Our we loud about our teams successes?  Definitely.  But, diluted?  I don’t what fan blogs these guys read.  Even the Chief admits his doubts about the post 2009 Wings.

Posted by bezukov from the kids are alright. on 12/23/13 at 03:06 PM ET

bezukov's avatar

I don’t know* what fan blogs these guys read. 

Posted by bezukov from the kids are alright. on 12/23/13 at 03:08 PM ET

Avatar

Are we arrogant? Probably.  Our we loud about our teams successes?  Definitely.  But, diluted?  I don’t what fan blogs these guys read.  Even the Chief admits his doubts about the post 2009 Wings.

I’m not sure this is targeted as much as Wings fans as it is at media coverage of the Wings.  Have you ever seen anyone be critical of the Wings?  I read a fair amount of NHL coverage and I can’t recall seeing an members of the media look critically at some of the decisions made by Holland and Co.  Some of the tin foil brigade may see slights left and right but I think the Wings get a lot more credit than maybe they’ve deserved over the last 3-4 years.  Most in the media still give them a free pass for things that happened 10-15 years ago when the reality is the organization has been stagnant for a few years.  That’s not to take anything away from Ken Holland or Mike Babcock’s accomplishments but at a certain point you have to deal with the present and not rely so much on the past.

Posted by RoneFace on 12/23/13 at 03:36 PM ET

RWBill's avatar

I have never read Puck Daddy and won’t be suckered into.

Posted by RWBill from cruising Brush Street with creepy Rob Lowe. on 12/23/13 at 03:37 PM ET

Down River Dan's avatar

His point is that the Wings are not terribly well constructed, and actually haven’t been for a few years.


Oh, I see. I didn’t get that out reading the piece?

Not well constructed?....and which teams are well constructed? Chicago, St. Louis, San Jose….?


Well perhaps the Wings just need to tank the season for 5-6 years and collect #1 overall draft picks, ala Edmonton and immediately put those players in the lineup , because that’s a guarantee of success…......

With the salary cap the room for error in free agent signings is very small, and I think off the record even Kenny, would probably admit that Cleary & Sammy were bad signings. Oh well, that sucks, but what are you gonna do now? Until their deals expire…not much. That changes a bit next summer with the increase in the cap.


In Gary’s new world there are gonna be a few teams above the others and then a big pack of everybody else.

I hope that when the playoffs start in April someone reposts this pos article, so all of us tinfoil hat wearing wings fans ( as they like to refer to us over on puck daddy) can all remind them to suck it!

Posted by Down River Dan on 12/23/13 at 04:18 PM ET

Avatar

Not well constructed?....and which teams are well constructed? Chicago, St. Louis, San Jose….?

Boston probably fits in that group too, and neither they nor San Jose had to bottom out for 5-6 years.  My two cents, and I don’t know if this is what he was referring to or not, is that there’s been a tendency to fall in love with players who either came up through the system or have been with the team for an extended period perhaps more than their tangible skills and contributions would demand.  A sort of “the devil you know” philosophy that has bred a degree of complacency over the past few years.  Almost like they’re out of ideas.  Guys like Hudler, Filpula, Abdelkader, Ericsson, Bertuzzi, etc.  If the team was drafting and developing like they had in the past, or like some of the elite teams have been able to do, all of those players are replaceable, but when there’s no one in the pipeline ready to contribute you’re stuck paying more for players than they’re actually worth just to avoid REALLY overpaying on the open market. 

Bottom line is this: the key to competing in a salary capped sport is to have young talent that massively overperforms their contract.  Who was the last Red Wings player to really fit that bill?  I guess Jimmy Howard but he’s a goalie and his impact is somewhat limited.

Posted by RoneFace on 12/23/13 at 04:31 PM ET

CaptainDennisPolonich's avatar

If one were to read the comments to TMR, the GDT’s and the LB’s (my comments included), one would think the Wings reside in last place. As much as I hate the 5-7 game losing streaks, thanks to little Gary’s charity point, the Wings are sitting in 5th place in the conference just four points out of a tie for third place. This in spite of an injury list that resembles Gettysburg more than a pro hockey team. When the team gets healthy and Uncle Mike actually tunes in (after the Olympics), third place is ours!

Is it my imagination, or did the Wings have a similar rash of injuries last season? Maybe its time to fire the training staff too.

Posted by CaptainDennisPolonich from The Land of Fake Boobs and Real Nuts on 12/23/13 at 05:18 PM ET

Avatar

This in spite of an injury list that resembles Gettysburg more than a pro hockey team

This is also a direct result of moving from the west to the east.  If the Wings were in the west they would likely be out of playoff contention.

Is it my imagination, or did the Wings have a similar rash of injuries last season? Maybe its time to fire the training staff too.

That’s one factor.  Another one is the fact that these are mostly the same players that were hurt last year, only they’re now a year older. 

 

Posted by RoneFace on 12/23/13 at 05:21 PM ET

CaptainDennisPolonich's avatar

Are we arrogant? Probably.  Our we loud about our teams successes?  Definitely.  But, diluted?  I don’t what fan blogs these guys read.  Even the Chief admits his doubts about the post 2009 Wings.
Posted by bezukov from the kids are alright. on 12/23/13 at 02:06 PM ET

Diluted? Absolutely. There are too many Red Wing blogs out there now, so fan participation has been watered down. wink

Posted by CaptainDennisPolonich from The Land of Fake Boobs and Real Nuts on 12/23/13 at 05:24 PM ET

Rumbear's avatar

Fuch Lambert and the Greg Wyshynsky he rode bareback in on.

Side saddle, to be sure.

Didn’t even bother to click on link.

Amen.

Part Deaux (II) of the 24/7 HBO Wings/Leaf show is up YouseTubes.  Grab a Pepsi and enjoy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuXzyhpDnFk&feature=youtu.be

LGRW !!!!!

Posted by Rumbear from Top O the Hasek, hanging with Dan Cleary.... on 12/23/13 at 07:12 PM ET

cigar_nurse's avatar

Meh. I won’t click on the article to give them credit for another reader. They must be having some pressure from sponsors to get more hits and this seems to be the way they roll. Write a derogatory story about 2 teams with huge loyal fan bases and let’s see what sticks to the wall.. This is the journalism that exists today. Sad.

Posted by cigar_nurse from Greenville South Cakalakee on 12/23/13 at 07:36 PM ET

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About Abel to Yzerman

Welcome to Abel to Yzerman, a Red Wing blog since 1977.  No other site on the internet has better-researched, fact-laden and better prepared discussions than A2Y.  Re-phrase: we do little research, find facts and stats highly overrated and claim little to no preparation.  There are 19 readers of A2Y. No more, no less. All of them, except maybe one, are juvenile in nature.  Reminding them of that in the comment section will only encourage them to prove that. Your suggestions and critiques are welcome: wphoulihan@gmail.com