Kukla's Korner

Abel to Yzerman

Travels With Nick: Why Tick Tock Kenny Holland Might Be Under The Gun

Assume the position. Get on your hands and knees and pretend there is a ceramic bowl in front of you.  At the bottom of the bowl, beneath the cool, fetid toilet water, there is an image of a 60-year old, hook-nosed tiny man in a house dress kissing the cheek of a man-child with a stupid mustache, a Coldplay t-shirt and a headache. It’s a horrible image made worse by the vomit you violently spew into the ceramic bowl.  Again and again and even one more time for the third again.

But don’t deceive yourself into thinking that it’s the disgusting “C”-less image at the bottom of that bowl that’s making your tummy rumble. No. The cause of your discontent is what’s ailing us all.

This may be the last run for #5.

Personally? I believe he’ll be back for one more season, maybe two.

But holy hell I’ve been wrong a lot about stuff like that and I’ve got nothing to go on but my gut and a redacted transcript of a recent conversation that took place in an SUV heading to downtown Detroit from the sleepy Swedish town of Novi, MI.

Ni___las _______strom:  “I’ve given this great thought, my friends. I plan to return to our chosen club, to defend a title I know will be ours again, and to do so with the ultimate fitness and mental dexterity that has become the hallmark of gentlemen warriors like you and I. I’ve discussed this with the mother of my children and she nodded her assent, as she will continue to do because I forbid anything else. I shall return, return with the fellows to join—once again—in the noblest of all pursuits. Will you skate with me one more time, old friends?”

T___as _______strom:  “You have captain of my sack another 17 months of cricket?”

Hank Z_______berg: “Jesus Homer”

The recording is scratchy, so that might be off a little but you get the idea.

Ok. Seriously. Is Nick coming back?  We don’t know, but what we do know is that no season in history has ever felt like Lidstrom’s last like this one has.  Got it?

Everything we know points to a departure: age, family, logic.  Every mainstream story you read about the Wings on game-day features a sentence about the imminent retirement.  Every message board or blog from a rival (all, in their opinions, 29 of them) love to point out the absolute certainty that the Wings will be basement dwellars, like Denver, the day St. Nick hangs them up. 

I don’t agree with the guarantee that the Wings will no longer compete after Lidstrom leaves, but that’s a subject for another day.  Actually, some may believe the whole subject should be tabled until the giggling 8 pounder has assured us of #12 in June.

I think it’s relevant now though, and I think Tick Tock Kenny Holland and my Uncle Mike think so, too.  I think they might be viewing this run in a real special way.  Different than other special runs at the Cup.

This one could very well be Lidstrom’s Last. And if it is, all effort should be expended, no one left as “untouchable”, no cost too high.  This should be a shopping spree, an orgy of hockey talent, all waiting to bathe in the 5.7 million bucks Holland has at his disposal.

And it means you might have to set aside some hate: Perry? Selanne? Doan?

Oh stop.  Remind me about all the Chelios as a Blackhawk posters you had in your room.  None, eh?  Got it.  We hated his ass. Hated him.  And we hated Wendell Clark, while we’re at it. Right George?  Until March 23, 1999, that is.  Can you think of three more detestable players to gain at a trade deadline than those two plus Ulf Samuelsson?  Oh and, hey, how many Dallas Drake jerseys did you own when he was a Star or a Bitter Bitch of a Blue?  Verbeek? Shanahan, even? 

You hate Corey Perry?  Me too. More than any player in the league. But, brother?  You know the question and, deep down inside, you know the answer.  I might not be able to type it and just thinking about it might make you feel warm in bad places.  But you know the answer.

And so does Holland.

Khan(!!!!)

“But the trade deadline is coming. We have a lot of cap space. We’ve done a lot of drafting and developing since 2005, saving our picks. I don’t know if we have to do anything, but certainly in the next six weeks we’re going to explore.”

Coming from Ken Holland that’s a virtual proclamation that he’s going for broke. 

Parise?  Don’t wait for the summer. Buy now, big boy.  Suter? You betcha.  All in for Nick. All in for the Swede’s last run. And if he’s back next year? Well, shit Kenny? Do it again.

Oh, and another way to look at it would be like this: If Holland makes that “big splash” in about six weeks? If he makes a deal that has “Cuppy, cuppy, cuppy” written all over it?  There’s your clue that The Perfect Human is on his way out of town.  If it’s just an accent move, a minor thing to fill in the gaps and serve as insurance?  Then it’s safe to say the Captain hasn’t given Holland firm word, either way, or he’s told him flat out that another year in Detroit is in the cards. 

No reason to think TPH is making it a secret.  If this is it, the last run…then Holland already knows.  Soon enough, so will we.  Way before the parade in June.

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Comments

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EpeeBill's avatar

My wishlist would include Bobby Ryan, Parise and Weber or Suter. I know Tick-Tock likes to build from the blue line out, but I think it’s time to dig for another stud forward.

Posted by EpeeBill on 01/18/12 at 12:11 PM ET

Nathan's avatar

The asset the Wings have is their depth in forward prospects. To make any sizable deal, they will have to be willing to part with Jurco/Tatar/Nyquist/Pulkkinen/Sheahan/etc.

For a forward, NJ is probably the most desperate team, so a Parise trade would be a good fit as far as what Kenny would have to surrender to get him. But, he’d also have to re-sign him for it to be worth the cost. Problem here being, you have to re-sign Stuart, allocate at least $6 million/year for Lidstrom or his “replacement” (there can be no true replacement), and give raises to Helm and Abdelkader. Given the expiring deals of Homer, Bert, and Hudler, it definitely is possible, but will require some hard thinking with Filppula and White coming up for deals the following season, and Datsyuk after that.

The Ducks aren’t desperate because they aren’t in as, at least from what we’ve seen, precarious of a financial situation. Also, they aren’t looking at star players with expiring deals. That said, I think it would cost a lot more to get one of the three big guns on the Ducks than it would to get Parise.

And as for Suter/Weber, even if the Preds lag behind the next few weeks and realistically have to trade one, I can’t see them trading to the Wings, for obvious reasons. They would trade with a team in the East. If anything, the only thing Holland could do on that front is try to run interference some way, somehow… to try to ensure Suter makes it to UFA.

Posted by Nathan from the scoresheet! on 01/18/12 at 12:12 PM ET

MoreShoot's avatar

And as for Suter/Weber, even if the Preds lag behind the next few weeks and realistically have to trade one, I can’t see them trading to the Wings, for obvious reasons. They would trade with a team in the East. If anything, the only thing Holland could do on that front is try to run interference some way, somehow… to try to ensure Suter makes it to UFA.

I’m in with the rumor mill pointing to Philadelphia.  Philly/Nashville have trade history.

Posted by MoreShoot on 01/18/12 at 12:26 PM ET

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If Jersey trades Parise, they’re not going to take a ton of salary back.

There seems to be (of late) something of a formula for top-flight forwards who are UFAs at the end of the season.

Pittsburgh picked up Hossa (w/ Pacal Dupuis) for Colby Armstrong, Erik Christensen, Angelo Esposito and a 1st round pick.

Jersey picked up Ilya Kovalchuk (w/ Anssi Salmela) for Johnny Oduya, Niclas Bergfors Patrice Cormier and a 1st round pick.

So the formula seems to be two roster players, a prospect and a 1st rounder for Parise.

And I’m guessing someone like Bobby Ryan from Anaheim would probably cost more, since he’s not on an expiring UFA contract.

And as for Suter/Weber, even if the Preds lag behind the next few weeks and realistically have to trade one, I can’t see them trading to the Wings, for obvious reasons. They would trade with a team in the East.

I absolutely agree.  Even if Nashville drops like a rock out of the playoff picture I can’t see them trading either Suter or Weber to Detroit.

Ever.

So yeah, they/we will likely have to hope that either Suter goes the UFA route of Lidstrom decides to stick around for another year, regardless of what Stuart decides to do (and man, I hope he re-signs).

Posted by Garth on 01/18/12 at 12:27 PM ET

joedaiceman's avatar

Just when I think that it is just not possible to write better than you have always done, you come up with this gem. Is there any limit to your genius? I sure the hell hope not.

Posted by joedaiceman on 01/18/12 at 12:31 PM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

So the formula seems to be two roster players, a prospect and a 1st rounder for Parise.

Sounds about right.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 01/18/12 at 12:41 PM ET

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Speaking of Stuart; after Kronwall resigned i was surprised to read that Holland said he wouldn’t start negotiating with Stuart until the offseason. This makes me wonder if trying to retain Stuart in the offseason is a backup plan to something.  Why else wouldn’t holland be trying to negotiate a new deal with him right now?  I pray everyday that E52 is not stuart’s replacement.

Let’s go Kenny, make an early blockbuster!

Posted by 11B3PF7 in MN on 01/18/12 at 12:51 PM ET

MoreShoot's avatar

So the formula seems to be two roster players, a prospect and a 1st rounder for Parise.

So, a forward and a defenseman sounds logical?  Unfortunately, I just don’t know that NJ, or anyone, would swallow E52.  And they likely don’t want a forth line forward.  So it’s Hudler or Filppula, plus Kindl.  Sheahan for prospect?  I hate like hell that we would have to give up Kindl instead of E52, but he would be the better bargain for NJ (or anyone else).

Posted by MoreShoot on 01/18/12 at 01:06 PM ET

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So, a forward and a defenseman sounds logical?

Probably.

Holland has a lot of wiggle room.

Hudler, Emmerton, Kindl, Ericsson and a bunch of unfulfilled potential in prospects.  As far as guys playing in Grand Rapids right now, how many untouchables are there?  Nyquist and Smith?

So it’s Hudler or Filppula, plus Kindl.

Well, there’s no way it’s Filppula, especially with the season he’s having.  He’s on pace for 70+ points, he’s not going to be something you trade for a rental.

The upshot with Ericsson vs Kindl is (and this all assumes that NJ is a team Ericsson’s allowed to be traded to with his modified NTC) is that from the outside Ericsson is an everyday NHLer and Kindl isn’t yet, with the way Detroit has been playing him and it would be easy to say “well, Detroit sees something with them giving him that contract” as well as “if given a bigger role, he could flourish, what with his size and all”, when looking at trade prospects.

Posted by Garth on 01/18/12 at 01:18 PM ET

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Yooo-hooo a bottle of rum…. And really bad eggs.

Posted by diesel44 from sterling heights on 01/18/12 at 01:20 PM ET

Jordan_NOHS's avatar

So the formula seems to be two roster players, a prospect and a 1st rounder for Parise

.

Kindl, Emmerton, Tatar and a 1st for Parise seems fair. Tatar could become a top-6 in a few years and Kindl will probably end up a top-4 dman. Emmerton adds depth and the pick will be at the end of the 1st. Detroit does most of their damage in the later rounds anyway.

If there was a team that Selanne would waive his no trade clause for I bet it’s Detroit. He loves Filppula an would probably be on a line with him.

Posted by Jordan_NOHS from Detroit, MI on 01/18/12 at 01:33 PM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

Kindl doesn’t have a NTC, doesn’t have a salary he’s not living up to (well… debatable), is a better puck-mover who still has decent size, and most importantly, doesn’t have the same vote of confidence from the higher-ups in the organ-i-zation.

I know we’re all keen to flights of fancy, but Ericsson is not on the trade block.  Kindl is. That’s why Kindl was in the lineup against Toronto and Commodore in against Chicago… because they wanted to try to show him off against an inferior team while also seeing if Commie could pull his weight against a contender so the Wings would be safe moving Kindl and playing Commodore on the third pair the rest of the season.

Flip’s off the table unless the guy coming back has a multi-year deal in place. There’s absolutely no way you throw that much value at a rental.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 01/18/12 at 01:59 PM ET

w2j2's avatar

Chief, you almost made me throw my cookies with that visual!  Jeez… I could smell it!
Well Done!

Hudler would be one guy on the block. Also Ericsson, Emmerton & some minor leaguers.

I do not see the Wings parting with any other D-men.
Kindl & Smith are too talented & too promising to trade, especially knowing that TPH is about to hang it up.

Posted by w2j2 on 01/18/12 at 02:19 PM ET

MOWingsfan19's avatar

That’s why Kindl was in the lineup against Toronto and Commodore in against Chicago… because they wanted to try to show him off against an inferior team while also seeing if Commie could pull his weight against a contender so the Wings would be safe moving Kindl and playing Commodore on the third pair the rest of the season

Spot on old boy.

Posted by MOWingsfan19 from I really like our team on 01/18/12 at 02:35 PM ET

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I don’t think KH will deal for the likes of Parise/Sutter/Weber/Ducks Trio. The asking price is going to be too steep due to fact that every buyer in the league is going to inquire about these players.

Posted by Jesters Dead on 01/18/12 at 03:20 PM ET

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The asking price is going to be too steep due to fact that every buyer in the league is going to inquire about these players.

Hopefully he’ll realize that if you’re serious about winning sometimes you have to give things up.

Otherwise what’s the *#$%@& point?

Posted by Garth on 01/18/12 at 03:36 PM ET

pgoody's avatar

Tell me you guys have seen this before:

http://www.iltripleovertime.com/

Posted by pgoody on 01/18/12 at 03:48 PM ET

MarkK's avatar

You hate Corey Perry?  Me too.

Lidstrom was in that Honda Commercial with Fairy. So it is possible to sit them down on the same bench, facing the same direction and speaking to each other.

Posted by MarkK from Maryland on 01/18/12 at 04:10 PM ET

dougie's avatar

Prediction: We are going to be sitting around here, right after the trade deadline, saying “WTF??? Nobody? He had cap space to burn.”

We will be using many exclamation points.

Unless a backup goaltender falls in his lap, he could easily stand pat. I’m not saying I think he should do nothing, but he never does what we expect.

And we are expecting some movement..

Posted by dougie on 01/18/12 at 04:13 PM ET

Jeff  OKWingnut's avatar

Geebuz Chief - your a real fuching buzzkiller.  Wings finally win on the road, and are, at least for the moment, 1st in the W.C.

Then you go and drop a 16” round into the basking of joy.

Bastard.

Posted by Jeff OKWingnut from Quest for 12 on 01/18/12 at 04:17 PM ET

SYF's avatar

Ahoy, Sailor.  Ugh.  Not even a glorious mug of ground Java can make that image go away.  Wait, I just had that last night.  Arrrggghhhxxx…

Philly/Nashville have trade history.

Posted by MoreShoot on 01/18/12 at 09:26 AM ET

And Philly/Los Angeles.

Wings are loaded on potential of some highly-regarded prospects - many of whom made their international debut at the recent WJC, in particular, Petr Mrazek.  The Devils would love to have Mrazek now that Fatso is severely human after all and as good a soldier as Johan Hedberg has been, no way they can count on him for everyday duties.  The Devils need goaltending.

Posted by SYF from the team that re-signed KFQ and DFC by KFH on 01/18/12 at 04:21 PM ET

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Posted by dougie on 01/18/12 at 01:13 PM ET

It’s not just that he has cap space, he said he was keeping cap space so that he could do something if we needed it.

And we do.

Sure, Bert plays well with Datsyuk and Hudler’s come alive, but there’s not enough on this team, especially with everyone else around us bound to make moves, to be serious contenders.

And if there’s even a thought in Holland’s mind that this might be Lidstrom’s last kick at the can then you know that Holland is going to do his damnedest to help Lidstrom go out on top and not go out on a low note like Yzerman did.

Posted by Garth on 01/18/12 at 04:22 PM ET

42jeff's avatar

Chief…I love you man.  And not in that navy way.  I’m sitting at gate D2 of minneapolis international and cackling like a lunatic.  The guy traveling with me it’s texting furiously so I know hes concerned.

I can say as long as whatever trade was made was logical, probably none of us would be TOO upset…until they made some critical error in the WCF and then it’s no holds barred. 

Perry I’m good with..parise ive never been too impresed with.  Getzlaf….ummm…well maybe

Posted by 42jeff from The greater Howard City, MI metroplex on 01/18/12 at 04:25 PM ET

monkey's avatar

When was the last time the Red Wings made a monster sized trade deadline deal and went on to win the Cup?  Pretty sure the answer to that is “never”.

They picked up Brad Stuart at the trade deadline in 2008 but I would say that was not a blockbuster.  Stuart is awesome but he’s not a superstar.

Personally, I don’t believe in the idea of picking up a big name and going right on to the Cup.  Takes at least a full season for most players to fit in on and with a new team.  And Kenny does not like to give up prospects.

Posted by monkey from Finland on 01/18/12 at 04:49 PM ET

MsRedWinger's avatar

Posted by monkey from the morel high ground on 01/18/12 at 01:49 PM ET

This.

Posted by MsRedWinger from Flori-duh on 01/18/12 at 04:59 PM ET

Down River Dan's avatar

I was looking over rosters of teams during the game last night. I was looking at players who were on the last year of their deals. A name which hasn’t been mentioned, but I remember hearing the wings were ” looking” at was Tuomo Ruotu in Carolina. Good size, can play the wing or center, and has scored 30 goals in previous seasons and is on pace for about 30 again this year.

The other player who is on his last year of his contract is Selanne. I know he is 41, but can still wheel and has a helluva shot and would look awesome on the powerplay.

I think this trade deadline will be really exciting and I think there are gonna be some wild deals coming down. I have faith that Kenny and the scouting staff will earn their money without making some sort of crazy desperate move, which I suspect will happen in st. Louis or chicago,or Nashville.

Posted by Down River Dan on 01/18/12 at 05:04 PM ET

MoreShoot's avatar

Re Ruoto or Selanne:  I like both players, but I was under the impression that the forward need is someone to fill up a little more space than Hudler on Hank’s line.  Are either of those two fit for a second line wing role?

Posted by MoreShoot on 01/18/12 at 05:23 PM ET

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Posted by monkey from the morel high ground on 01/18/12 at 01:49 PM ET

Interesting way to look at it.

Another way is that the last time the Wings won the Stanley Cup was the last time Ken Holland addressed a need the Red Wings had by making a deadline deal.

What’s the argument against making a deal?

And Kenny does not like to give up prospects.

Good for him.  He doesn’t have many qualms about giving them up the waiver wire for nothing though.  And I wonder if he dislikes giving up prospects more or less than he likes standing in an empty arena in April or May.

Nobody likes giving up prospects, but if you can get the right deal and make your team better then it’s a no-brainer.

Posted by Garth on 01/18/12 at 05:48 PM ET

tuxedoTshirt's avatar

I hate to be the voice of pessimism, but I think this is getting pie-in-the-sky.  Perhaps your logic about Nick overrides the norms of wheel-dealing, but I think Ruutu is about as big of name as you will see.
I mean, imagine being a NJ fan and trading your captain and best player for a handful of minor leaguers while you are in playoff contention.  Lamierello has to look after the fanbase a little, not to mention playoff revenues.  And maybe they’ll get an investor by that time…...they’re actually playing pretty well.  Mrazek might be the asset that lands Parise’s rights at the draft. 
Rentals can be cheap, but there are quite a few teams bidding.  The spare parts that you guys are offering up are not very enticing; if the win-now mentality is in place for Holland, as you are suggesting, well, it certainly is for at least six other teams as well.

Posted by tuxedoTshirt from the Home of the 1937 World Champions on 01/18/12 at 06:00 PM ET

dougie's avatar

This is some of the most intelligentest hockey talk on the web.

Take a bow, 19.

Posted by dougie on 01/18/12 at 06:01 PM ET

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but I think this is getting pie-in-the-sky.

Of course it is.

Posted by Garth on 01/18/12 at 06:04 PM ET

11B4PF7 in MN's avatar

And Kenny does not like to give up prospects.

Good for him.  He doesn’t have many qualms about giving them up the waiver wire for nothing though.  And I wonder if he dislikes giving up prospects more or less than he likes standing in an empty arena in April or May.

Nobody likes giving up prospects, but if you can get the right deal and make your team better then it’s a no-brainer.

Posted by Garth on 01/18/12 at 02:48 PM ET

So much truth to pretty much everything you say Garth.  I would like to add this though.  There is a HUGE love fest going on with all of our amazing prospects, and it really looks like we have some great prospects in our system.  But, there are only 23 roster spots in Detroit.  Many of those spots have players slotted into them with long term contracts.  Additionally, we may have eight to ten higher end potential prospects, but it is very unlikely that even half of them will turn out to be something special.  Babcock definitely favors veterans with playing time too.  Look, the Wings have thirty plus prospects in their system, at some point, they will have to clear waivers…

The point of all of these meandering thoughts is this:  Trade pretty much any of them for some legit talent to make a run.  Lidstrom and Datsyuk are generational talents; don’t waste these last few opportunities (I hope plural is applicable for Lidstrom).  Keep Smith and Nyquist.

Posted by 11B4PF7 in MN on 01/18/12 at 06:30 PM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

I hate to be the voice of pessimism, but I think this is getting pie-in-the-sky.  Perhaps your logic about Nick overrides the norms of wheel-dealing, but I think Ruutu is about as big of name as you will see.

No you don’t.  You just told us yesterday that you like giving a dissenting opinion.

To tell the truth, I think you’re right.  I just don’t see Detroit as willing to spend what other teams will on the bigger names.  That said, I think what other teams will bid to get those bigger names will be mortgage more of their future than I want Detroit to do. It’s the exact same organizational mentality Kenny had during the offseason when he let guys like Wisniewski escape to sign elsewhere for more than they’re worth. 

Detroit does need to make a move to improve their team this season, but I want Holland to be smart enough to balance between this year’s improvement and the club’s ability to ice a competitive team for the next five seasons.

I think the most likely scenario is that Holland trades away the assets we’ve all been discussing to get a second-tier guy who he feels will be extra-motivated by being wanted in Detroit and will play above his station for the playoff run. Ruutu, Hemsky (maybe), Gaustad; these are the kind of guys I think are most likely to end up in Detroit, and that’s going to piss off a lot of people who have big dollar signs in their eyes.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 01/18/12 at 06:41 PM ET

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Posted by 11B3PF7 in MN on 01/18/12 at 03:30 PM ET

That’s one of the interesting things with Red Wings prospects.  Everyone knows Holland likes to “season” his prospects in Grand Rapids, but how many of those prospects in the last few years have NOT had the shine come off of them while playing in the AHL.  Jimmy Howard was a big prospect and by the time he made the Red Wings he was being given the chance only because he was no longer waiver exempt.  Quincy was a big-time prospect and he was lost to the waiver.  Ritola too.  Derek Meech was a decent prospect who was essentially ruined because he was barely played on defense and was instead asked to sub in at the forward spot because of roster issues.  McCollum was the next big thing, now he’s playing in the ECHL.  Last year Tatar was the cat’s ass and now nobody’s talking about him.  People were even wavering on Smith before they saw him actually play in Detroit.  I’m not sure about Mursak, but Emmerton seems to pretty much be on the team only because he was no longer waiver exempt.

This coming year it’s possible that Holmstrom, Bertuzzi and Hudler leave town and I can’t imagine many people simply being happy with rookies taking up those spots.

If there was ever a time to justify trading some prospects and/or picks for proven talent then, to me, this is surely it.

Whether or not Lidstrom retires, everyone in the organization should be treating this year as if it’s his last and really making a solid, serious run at the cup.

If he Wings win the Cup and he retires (and there’s very little doubt in my mind that he would) it would be softened because a) the Wings would be the reigning champs, and b) signing a “replacement” wouldn’t be as difficult because signing with the reigning Cup champs is surely an attractive notion to any UFAs on the marker.

Posted by Garth on 01/18/12 at 06:50 PM ET

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It’s the exact same organizational mentality Kenny had during the offseason when he let guys like Wisniewski escape to sign elsewhere for more than they’re worth.

I have to disagree.  There’s a world of difference between giving someone a long contract that he’s not worth and trading away prospects who may never play a game in the NHL for proven NHL talent that will make your team better.

Cap space is a real and tangible thing.  Signing someone to a huge contract that he hasn’t earned is different from dipping your cup into a pool of potential talent and offering some of it up for real, NHL-leve, proven talent.

I hate this BS about “mortgaging the future”.  Pop quiz: How many first round draft picks are currently on Detroit’s roster?  Answer?  Two.  Kronwall was drafted almost 12 years ago and Kindl almost 7 years ago.  How many more are in the system?  Brendan Smith and Thomas McCollum.

What’s the future they’d be mortgaging?  It’s not like they’ve got five or six first round Red Wings draft picks on the roster.  The other night during the game they put up a graphic saying the average selection of guys playing in Detroit who were drafted by Detroit is somewhere in the high 90s or low 100s.

If it were possible to get markedly better by picking up a proven quality player in exchange for a some prospects and a late 1st round pick that there’s a good chance Detroit would be trading for an early 2nd round pick anyways, Holland would be dumb not to pull the trigger.

Posted by Garth on 01/18/12 at 07:05 PM ET

11B4PF7 in MN's avatar

Posted by Garth on 01/18/12 at 03:50 PM ET

Exactly.  Could Jarnkrok and Pulkkinen become the next EuroTwins? I hope so! But they could just as easily become the next Ritola and Axelsson.  Add Ferraro to the list of prospects that had a lot of potential and have slowly faded since their draft day.

I think with Tatar, he has taken a secondary role behind Nyquist in the AHL this year and that’s why his production was a little bit.  I really feel that if the Wings do a package deal involving a top prospect, Tatar will (needs to) be in that package.  As for next year—hate to talk about that right now—Smith, and Nyquist will be on the team.  If Tatar isn’t traded, he has to be on the team since this is the last year of his entry level contract.  So, there is your infusion of youth next year combined with Emmerton and Mursak this year.  That is a lot of unproven youth on the roster.

Posted by 11B4PF7 in MN on 01/18/12 at 07:32 PM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

I hate this BS about “mortgaging the future”.  Pop quiz: How many first round draft picks are currently on Detroit’s roster?  Answer?  Two.

Danny Cleary (Chicago) and Patrick Eaves (Ottawa)

Cap space is a real and tangible thing.  Signing someone to a huge contract that he hasn’t earned is different from dipping your cup into a pool of potential talent and offering some of it up for real, NHL-leve, proven talent.

Signing someone to a huge contract that he hasn’t earned is as big of a risk as trading lots of your franchise’s future value for an impeding UFA, if he bolts to the next Dale Tallon-run or Terry Pegula-bought organization with open pocketbooks in the offseason.

Then you have none of that stockpiled value in your franchise and none of that purchased talent on your roster.  If that happens, you sure as hell better have a cup to keep the fans happy about that, because you have just mortgaged your future for one run at the playoffs.

Then, if you even decide to spend that kind of real, tangible value on a guy, you have to compete with the six or so other teams; their real, tangible value; and the potential that their GM is willing to spend WAAAY more than you even can because other teams also have prospects and they also have picks which, for the most part (except for a few cases) are almost guaranteed to be worth more than the assumed future value of the draft picks you have to trade with.

This doesn’t even factor in a GM’s reticence to trade a guy to Detroit for the simple fact that fans around the league think the Red Wings are the fuching devil incarnate and that it’s entirely possible that a GM is going to cost his team real-world ticket sales by the mere fact that he answered the phone from Ken Holland instead of Stan Bowman.

If Detroit gets in a bidding war with another team, they will lose.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 01/18/12 at 07:35 PM ET

Avatar

That is a lot of unproven youth on the roster.

Exactly, and that is mortgaging the present for an unknown future.  Is that better than mortgaging the future for the present?

Having youth on the team is great, but having too much youth can be as bad as having a team that’s too old.

And also, to those talking about mortgaging the future I would ask if they think Detroit is appreciably worse for giving up Shawn Mattias or the two draft picks they gave up for Brad Stuart?

You’d have to go back to 2004, to the Robert Lang trade, to find one that really could’ve hurt the future in favour of the present (and admittedly a present that didn’t exactly work out the way the Wings hoped it would).

That’s eight years.

Posted by Garth on 01/18/12 at 07:39 PM ET

11B4PF7 in MN's avatar

You’d have to go back to 2004, to the Robert Lang trade…

I have thought about this trade many times.  Without Robert Lang’s goal in the third period against the Sharks back in 2007, do the wings win the Stanley Cup the next year?  That goal helped the “new” Red Wings core players learn to win and helped them get to the WCF against the Ducks.  Watching Datsyuk and Zetterberg in the Anaheim series was completely different than watching those two in the previous two rounds.  They learned what it took to win.  Even though Flieschman and Green were the players the Capitols received from the Wings in the Lang trade, I would still make it again.

Posted by 11B4PF7 in MN on 01/18/12 at 07:53 PM ET

MoreShoot's avatar

Without Robert Lang’s goal in the third period against the Sharks back in 2007, do the wings win the Stanley Cup the next year? 

That goal is almost a ‘Where was I at the moment’ event.  I still remember uncontrollable utterances to the effect of ‘good gawd what gift’ even before the goal went in.  I now relish the moment as it likely caused a 3 year mental cramp for the Sharks.

Posted by MoreShoot on 01/18/12 at 08:00 PM ET

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Welcome to Abel to Yzerman, a Red Wing blog since 1977.  No other site on the internet has better-researched, fact-laden and better prepared discussions than A2Y.  Re-phrase: we do little research, find facts and stats highly overrated and claim little to no preparation.  There are 19 readers of A2Y. No more, no less. All of them, except maybe one, are juvenile in nature.  Reminding them of that in the comment section will only encourage them to prove that. Your suggestions and critiques are welcome: wphoulihan@gmail.com