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Abel to Yzerman

Standing By For Helm?

Updated below: Khan(!)'s going nuts with paragraphs on MLive.  He says Nyquist would have been sent down regardless of Helm's condition, and he tells us that because it's exactly what Ken Holland told him to tell us.  More below. Seriously.

Looks like it...

More details from the Deep Digger captain,

Khan(!)

"He's skating today and tomorrow and after two days of practice I'd assume it's a Wednesday morning decision,'' general manager Ken Holland said.

Helm has appeared in only one game (Jan. 25 vs. Minnesota) due to a back injury (slight tear in disc) suffered three days before training camp.

"If Helm is in the lineup, great. If not, we'll reassess Thursday and might bring back Nyquist for the California trip (four games, starting in Anaheim Friday),'' Holland said.

The Red Wings would have sent down Nyquist today whether or not Helm was close to returning.

"(Coach Mike Babcock) will use the same 12 forwards Wednesday if Helm can't go,'' Holland said. "Why keep Nyquist as a healthy scratch? Grand Rapids has a game on Tuesday.''

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Comments

MoreShoot's avatar

Well Brunner took his spot on the third line, so he had no way to get in the lineup anyway.

Posted by MoreShoot on 03/18/13 at 08:50 AM ET

w2j2's avatar

Grand Rapids needs Nyquist, and he needs TOI.
It will be a joy to see Helm flying around out there!
grin

Posted by w2j2 on 03/18/13 at 09:01 AM ET

MoreShoot's avatar

I’m not convinced till I get the official word.  Because, if Helm is back, then he’s likely to skate with Eaves and Cleary, and that would mean Andersson is getting his demotion, too.  I, of course, have no problem cutting Cleary and giving his job to ‘The Joker’, but I don’t expect that.

Posted by MoreShoot on 03/18/13 at 09:10 AM ET

MsRedWinger's avatar

I really, really want my Helmer back.  But I also want Tatar and Nyquist.

I know, I know, the Griffins need those guys.  I say, ” Balderdash.”  The Griffins are the garden from which Red Wings sprout.  And those guys have blossomed. They are ready and they are hungry.  It’s time for them to be in the NHL.  What better time to get them integrated with the big club than this stupid, clusterfuch of a “season”?

I’m soooooooooo looking forward to seeing what happens when Sammy and Bert come back.  /sarcasm/

Posted by MsRedWinger from Flori-duh on 03/18/13 at 09:17 AM ET

MsRedWinger's avatar

Oh geez.  Yes, Andersson.  He’ll be gone too. 

shut eye

Posted by MsRedWinger from Flori-duh on 03/18/13 at 09:19 AM ET

MoreShoot's avatar

per Khan:

“If Helm is in the lineup, great. If not, we’ll reassess Thursday and might bring back Nyquist for the California trip (four games, starting in Anaheim Friday),’’ Holland said.

The Red Wings would have sent down Nyquist today whether or not Helm was close to returning.

“(Coach Mike Babcock) will use the same 12 forwards Wednesday if Helm can’t go,’’ Holland said. “Why keep Nyquist as a healthy scratch? Grand Rapids has a game on Tuesday.’‘

Helm is not imminent, and apparently Gus doesn’t fit, at least not in Babcock’s world.

Posted by MoreShoot on 03/18/13 at 09:21 AM ET

Hootinani's avatar

Chief, don’t you dare tease and then not deliver

Posted by Hootinani on 03/18/13 at 09:25 AM ET

Avatar

“Why bring Nyquist up at all?  We all knew he wasn’t going to get a chance.’‘

Fixed.

Posted by Garth on 03/18/13 at 09:25 AM ET

MoreShoot's avatar

Helm is not imminent,

...but there’s no way we win two in Anaheim without Helm.

Posted by MoreShoot on 03/18/13 at 09:30 AM ET

mrfluffy's avatar

Oh great. Helm just started skating last week and now we’re going to just plug him in after 12 months of health issues.

Regarding Tatar…Nyquist…Andersson…

I’m sure Miller, Cleary, Sammy and Abdelanchor would look good with a Griffin on their chest.

Posted by mrfluffy from A wide spot on I-90 in Montana on 03/18/13 at 10:02 AM ET

11B4PF7 in MN's avatar

At what point does the Red Wings handling of Brendan Smith and Gustav Nyquist (especially this year) affect Detroit’s ability to land a Justin Schultz or Danny Dekaysier (spelling) type of free agent?  By that I mean; it is obvious those two players had the skill and ability to play on the Red Wings last year.  Not only that but they produced as well when they were given ice time.  You have to wonder if the Wings track record played into Schultz’s decision.  Other players like Lashoff, Tatar, Andersson, Howard, Abdelkader; they obviously need(ed) the extended time with the Griffins.  So I am by no means claiming the slow approach is a failure—because it is not at all.  Like a number of you have mentioned before though, we tend to be a little too loyal to some of our veterans at the expense of young and hungry players.
I don’t want to steal HTO’s thunder here, but is Holland going to recall Nyquist on April 4th and proclaim that as his trade dealine top 6 forward acquisition?

Posted by 11B4PF7 in MN on 03/18/13 at 10:47 AM ET

Avatar

Posted by 11B3PF7 in MN on 03/18/13 at 11:47 AM ET

I don’t think there’s any doubt that Holland’s unwillingness to guarantee Schultz a roster spot factored into his decision to go elsewhere.

Posted by Garth on 03/18/13 at 10:51 AM ET

OlderThanChelios's avatar

“Why bring Nyquist up at all?  We all knew he wasn’t going to get a chance.’‘

That’s a false statement (even if it is sarcasm). Nyquil had at least three shifts with Pavel and Cleary. But he was terrible at positioning himself in front of the net so Pavel could bank a shot in off of him. So Babs had no option but to return Abdelcarom to the second line.

The kid just wasn’t ready to be a human backboard. Maybe he’ll have a chance to pick up that skill now that he’s back with the Griffins – if he doesn’t get all caught up in trying to score himself, that is.

Is it next year yet?

Posted by OlderThanChelios from Grand Rapids, MI on 03/18/13 at 11:01 AM ET

Avatar

The kid just wasn’t ready to be a human backboard.

Yeah, but if they get to him now when he’s young, they can probably turn him into one.  That way they could have Abdelkader on Datsyuk’s line as the human backboard and Nyquist on Zetterberg’s line as the human backboard, unless they want try convering Brunner first…

Posted by Garth on 03/18/13 at 11:28 AM ET

CaptainDennisPolonich's avatar

That’s a false statement (even if it is sarcasm). Nyquil had at least three shifts with Pavel and Cleary. But he was terrible at positioning himself in front of the net so Pavel could bank a shot in off of him. So Babs had no option but to return Abdelcarom to the second line.
Posted by OlderThanChelios from Grand Rapids, MI on 03/18/13 at 12:01 PM ET

Best nickname in years. That is sidebar material right there, if there ever is a sidebar again.

Posted by CaptainDennisPolonich from The Land of Fake Boobs and Real Nuts on 03/18/13 at 11:32 AM ET

Guilherme's avatar

Posted by 11B3PF7 in MN on 03/18/13 at 11:47 AM ET

I don’t know if it matters. Look at Brunner’s case, for instance.

Posted by Guilherme from Brazsil on 03/18/13 at 11:52 AM ET

RedMenace's avatar

I hate to be “that guy,” but doesn’t anyone remember that this is only Nyquist’s 2nd pro season? Sure he lit up the A last season and this season, and he’ll most likely get a full-time roster spot NEXT year. You know, when there’s more than half a season to play.

Tatar has paid his dues for 4 years, and he’s ready for the big time. It shows.

This would have been Smith’s 3rd season in the A, and he’s arguably not quite ready (at least, I think he’s still WAY too unsteady in his own end). I’d actually preferred he spent one more season with the Griffins, but hey, what do I know?

Kindl spent 3 full seasons in Grand Rapids before coming up and playing half of 2010-2011, and 2/3 of the season last year. This year he’s starting to come into his own. A full year of quality playing time next year will likely see him break out completely. He’s got to be able to get comfortable in the lineup, and PopeCock’s propensity to scratch Kindl at will has got to be a little unnerving for the guy.

Lashoff would have been playing his 3rd season in the A (2.5 if you count his first being cut to 35 games by injury), and the reason he’s here now is because he fills a need. Does he need seasoning? Hell yeah he does, but he’s got a good foundation upon which to build.

I don’t know, I’m just rambling at this point, but I guess my point is: Patience. Yes, we like to see movement, and we see other teams in the league playing young guys right out of the gate, sometimes that’s not the best way to handle young guys…

... wait, that’s terrible.

Anyway, wait. Just wait. Previously there was some guy named Lindstrom or something playing for the Wings, and then there was everyone else; they were all complimentary pieces to The Perfect Human. Now he’s gone, and there are voids to fill. Would Schultz have been a nice piece? Sure. Would Dekeyser be a great kid to have going forward? Of course. Will the Wings be that much worse without them? Only time will tell, and unless anyone has a crystal ball hidden up their asses (which might be groud to a fine powder after this “interesting” season—can you tell me the powerball numbers for this week, btw?), it would seem that it’s the only thing we can do.

Also, YAY HELM. If he can stay healthy for the rest of the season, the 3rd line (and 4th, by default) becomes just that much better.

Posted by RedMenace from the Church of Jesus Lashoff on 03/18/13 at 11:56 AM ET

WingsFanInBeanLand's avatar

Is Helm really going to change the dynamic of this team?

Posted by WingsFanInBeanLand from where free agents no longer dare. on 03/18/13 at 12:01 PM ET

statelouis26's avatar

Tatar has paid his dues for 4 years, and he’s ready for the big time. It shows.
Posted by RedMenace from aboard the Crazy Train on 03/18/13 at 12:56 PM ET

Why was he sent back down then?  Tatar had as many goals with 2 shifts per game as Cleary had with Datsyuk on the 2nd line playing 18 minutes/game including PK and PP time.

The way the Wings incorporate the young guys lacks sense sometimes.

Posted by statelouis26 from Detroit, MI on 03/18/13 at 12:07 PM ET

Guilherme's avatar

Is Helm really going to change the dynamic of this team?

Gut test, but it seems that the shift after he leaves the ice is always better than the one before he stepped in.

Posted by Guilherme from Brazsil on 03/18/13 at 12:39 PM ET

RWBill's avatar

Got to be realstic about Helm.  His contributions are highly based on physical energy, whether bursts of speed, hitting,persstence, PK, etc.  He’s been out of game to game contact for almost an entire year, it’s going to take some time for Helm to get into Helm-condition.

Posted by RWBill from Brush Street cruising with Super Creepy Rob Lowe. on 03/18/13 at 12:53 PM ET

RedMenace's avatar

Why was he sent back down then?  Tatar had as many goals with 2 shifts per game as Cleary had with Datsyuk on the 2nd line playing 18 minutes/game including PK and PP time.

Because at this point, Grand Rapids needs him more than the Wings do.

Same with Nyquist.

The Wings will limp along this “year” with their roster, then I expect next season to start the turn-around.

Posted by RedMenace from the Church of Jesus Lashoff on 03/18/13 at 01:04 PM ET

RedMenace's avatar

Got to be realstic about Helm.  His contributions are highly based on physical energy, whether bursts of speed, hitting,persstence, PK, etc.  He’s been out of game to game contact for almost an entire year, it’s going to take some time for Helm to get into Helm-condition.

Posted by RWBill from the open bar on The Hasek. on 03/18/13 at 01:53 PM ET

A half-broken Helm is better than no Helm at all.

 

Posted by RedMenace from the Church of Jesus Lashoff on 03/18/13 at 01:32 PM ET

statelouis26's avatar

Because at this point, Grand Rapids needs him more than the Wings do.
Posted by RedMenace from aboard the Crazy Train on 03/18/13 at 02:04 PM ET.

Can you honestly say that with a straight face?  The Wings have struggled with offense this year (as well as wins).  Why is his goal-scoring more valuable to the Griffins than the Wings?  The big club is what matters, nobody could give to shiz if GR wins the Calder.  Nyquist is different because he hasn’t really produced in his limited time with the big club.  He has destroyed the AHL so I would agree he is more valuable to the Griffins on that point.

Posted by statelouis26 from Detroit, MI on 03/18/13 at 01:43 PM ET

IwoCPO's avatar

The big club is what matters, nobody could give to shiz if GR wins the Calder.

Absolutely agree. Wings success is the only ultimate goal.

Posted by IwoCPO from Sunny San Diego, bitches on 03/18/13 at 02:26 PM ET

RedMenace's avatar

Can you honestly say that with a straight face?  The Wings have struggled with offense this year (as well as wins).  Why is his goal-scoring more valuable to the Griffins than the Wings?  The big club is what matters, nobody could give to shiz if GR wins the Calder.  Nyquist is different because he hasn’t really produced in his limited time with the big club.  He has destroyed the AHL so I would agree he is more valuable to the Griffins on that point.

Posted by statelouis26 from Detroit, MI on 03/18/13 at 02:43 PM ET

Yes, yes I can.

Him getting 1st-line minutes, slogging through the playoffs, and generally taking a leadership role in Grand Rapids is more important than him wasting away on the 3rd line or as a healthy scratch.

You don’t care if Grand Rapids wins, but they’re an organization just like the Wings, and directly tied to them. Yeah, the Wings have priority, but they too have games to win, seats to fill, and money to make just like any other professional sports team. If the Griffins fail, then the Wings farm system fails.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, this year seems to be a “throw-away” for the Wings; if they make the playoffs, awesome—but if they don’t, then at least they’re figuring out what they have for the future.

Posted by RedMenace from the Church of Jesus Lashoff on 03/18/13 at 02:26 PM ET

HockeytownOverhaul's avatar

There are only so many things you can learn from the AHL.  Most are things about the systems and speed.  Also about physicality.  There are others though, that you can only learn playing in the NHL.  NHL experience CANNOT be substituted.  You can try to prepare a prospect as best as possible, but there are PLENTY of SCORERS in the AHL who’ve never been able to translate in the NHL.

If Gus is a AHL scorer but not an NHL talent, we need to sort that out.  But if you’re missing half of your top 6, and you went and signed vets this season because the “kids” need top six ice time, then why do you promote career bottom 6 guys into that role and let the top 6 stable you have in GR come up and play… 3rd.. 4th line minutes?  Consistently some of the fewest on the team?  Then I have to ask, what was the point in keeping them down.

It’s like the Red Wings aren’t willing to let a player go through the growing pains and the losing that goes along, but they’ll let us keep losing WITHOUT getting the kids the NHL experience they need, that can’t be substituted in the AHL.

It defies my middling blue collar working class logic.  Maybe a more learned individual can make sense of it but what’s coming out of the Brain Trust’s mouth, doesn’t match what they put on the ice.

Posted by HockeytownOverhaul on 03/18/13 at 02:34 PM ET

Avatar

Him getting 1st-line minutes, slogging through the playoffs, and generally taking a leadership role in Grand Rapids is more important than him wasting away on the 3rd line or as a healthy scratch.

That’s not the same as “Grand Rapids needs him more”.  At all.

Posted by Garth on 03/18/13 at 03:12 PM ET

HockeytownOverhaul's avatar

Are the Griffins in danger of losing their 10pnt lead over number 2 in their division?  Are they in danger of not making the playoffs?  If Detroit makes the playoffs, you don’t think Nyquist is a Black Ace?  If they don’t, you don’t think Nyquist is back down in the AHL for the playoffs?  He’s not restricted by the games played rule because he’s an injury replacement.

So, GR’s “needs” still have no bearing on the Red Wings, at least from the standpoint mentioned.  Maybe somehow GR does merit to be in the same “business” discussion as one of the most profitable franchises in a non-profit NHL, but I’d be willing to bet, Red Wings continued success is more important than the Griffins getting into the playoffs, which they already are.  And none of our deadline aqui.. I mean call-ups.. are in risk of not being able to participate UNLESS we MAKE the playoffs too, in which they’d be here ANYWAYs.

Posted by HockeytownOverhaul on 03/18/13 at 03:20 PM ET

CaptainDennisPolonich's avatar

I know this is completely off the wall, but could who ends up doing the I-96 shuffle have nothing to do with what the Wings need or what GR needs? Could it have a little something to do with Article 13, section 13.2 of the CBA, which basically says all non-exempt players must clear waivers before being loaned to a minor league team.

Exempt v. non-exempt status depends on golie/skater, age, number years and games in the NHL. It can range from 1-6 years.

I’m guessing Abdelcarom and rusty bucket would have to clear waivers before being sent down. Nyquil and Jigantor Joe Kim likely do not.

At least they got rid of re-entry waivers in the new CBA

Posted by CaptainDennisPolonich from The Land of Fake Boobs and Real Nuts on 03/18/13 at 03:33 PM ET

Avatar

I know this is completely off the wall, but could who ends up doing the I-96 shuffle have nothing to do with what the Wings need or what GR needs?

I’m not sure if that’s even in question.

Posted by Garth on 03/18/13 at 03:53 PM ET

RedMenace's avatar

That’s not the same as “Grand Rapids needs him more”.  At all.

Posted by Garth on 03/18/13 at 04:12 PM ET

So Grand Rapids doesn’t need him doing those things, whereas Detroit “needs” him rotating in and out of the lineup—and on the 3rd line, no less?

Okay.

Posted by CaptainDennisPolonich from Warm and sunny SoCal on 03/18/13 at 04:33 PM ET

Most of the people who say “Send Rust Bucket/Abdelcarom/Miller/Samuelsson/Bertuzzi down” don’t care if they get claimed off waivers—hell, it’d take care of roster issues right then and there.

But we all know that won’t happen.

Posted by RedMenace from the Church of Jesus Lashoff on 03/18/13 at 03:55 PM ET

CaptainDennisPolonich's avatar

I would love to see rust bucket sent down. But just our luck he would clear waivers.

Rust buckets best days are long past. Demote him to GR. If he clears waivers and actually goes there (rather than retiring) he would be a great on ice coach for the griffs. I agree with the others that there is absolutely nothing to be gained by have tots, nyquil and joe kim spend another single shift in GR. Keep them with the big club and play the dickens out of them. See if the have what it takes to play in the NHL.

Posted by CaptainDennisPolonich from The Land of Fake Boobs and Real Nuts on 03/18/13 at 04:06 PM ET

RedMenace's avatar

Posted by CaptainDennisPolonich from Warm and sunny SoCal on 03/18/13 at 05:06 PM ET

Heh, looks like I’m in the minority.

Neat.

 

Posted by RedMenace from the Church of Jesus Lashoff on 03/18/13 at 04:07 PM ET

Avatar

So Grand Rapids doesn’t need him doing those things, whereas Detroit “needs” him rotating in and out of the lineup—and on the 3rd line, no less?

Yes.  That is what I said. I said that Nyquist should be playing on the third line and rotating in and out of the lineup.

Did you borrow the straw man from HockeyinHD?

Posted by Garth on 03/18/13 at 05:30 PM ET

HockeytownOverhaul's avatar

Did no on read my post about GR being a solid 1st in their division and Gus being a Black Ace, hence, not a Griffin Playoff piece, IF we make the playoffs?

And we’re missing how many F’s? How many skilled F’s?  Doesn’t change they still aren’t getting a shot at real minutes.  Just them getting a chance to play is their “shot” according to Babs.  “He earned himself another game, and another, he’s done real well for himself”... so much so that Babs played him least on the team, when he was one of the most consistent point producers.  If confidence is such a huge part of the game like Babs has mentioned, then treating your young skill guys this way probably isn’t going to help their confidence.  Just sayin’.  But he’ll play tag with Mule’s confidence all year trying to goad it out into the sunlight, hoping for a long spring.

It’s unreal.

Posted by HockeytownOverhaul on 03/18/13 at 06:27 PM ET

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Posted by HockeytownOverhaul on 03/18/13 at 07:27 PM ET

100% in agreement.

Posted by Garth on 03/18/13 at 08:13 PM ET

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Welcome to Abel to Yzerman, a Red Wing blog since 1977.  No other site on the internet has better-researched, fact-laden and better prepared discussions than A2Y.  Re-phrase: we do little research, find facts and stats highly overrated and claim little to no preparation.  There are 19 readers of A2Y. No more, no less. All of them, except maybe one, are juvenile in nature.  Reminding them of that in the comment section will only encourage them to prove that. Your suggestions and critiques are welcome: wphoulihan@gmail.com