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Ken Holland Wraps Up The Season

 

 

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So no one learned anything and we’re going to struggle again

Posted by Iamhaljordan on 04/10/18 at 12:23 PM ET

TreKronor's avatar

Patience. This isn’t going to be short.

Posted by TreKronor on 04/10/18 at 12:32 PM ET

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Sorry,

After reading Holland’s statement at the bottom I don’t have a lot of patience with him or his way of doing things. You’ve known since 2011 this team wasn’t good enough and nearly every chance you’ve had to get better, he’s taken the easy way out for “the streak” or being 8% better. Well we’re not and the reason is going to take a long time is because of him passing out stupid contracts.

Posted by Iamhaljordan on 04/10/18 at 12:38 PM ET

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people will say they were bad contracts, doesn’t matter. i’ve got honor the contract.

1) Yes it does matter.
2) No you don’t. You could trade or buy out bad contracts. But then what vets would you sign to bad contracts in order to replace the ones you dumped, right?

It might help if the GM showed that he had even the most basic understanding of how rebuilds work before he was re-signed to oversee the rebuild.

Posted by CharDeeMacDennis on 04/10/18 at 12:40 PM ET

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people will say they were bad contracts, doesn’t matter

Yeah, this sentence is not OK with me either. First KH says when he signed Abby to a 7year deal, “oh, maybe it’s 2 years too long, but who cares about years 6 and 7”. Now he says “does not matter” again. Not sure why so many fans are willing to give KH another 2 years. The real rebuild will have to wait for another 2 years.

Posted by VPalmer on 04/10/18 at 12:50 PM ET

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The real rebuild will have to wait for another 2 years.

This.

Posted by CharDeeMacDennis on 04/10/18 at 12:52 PM ET

ilovehomers's avatar

Kenny boy is more resigned to the state of the team (the defense) and his poor drafting. He even used the word “rebuild”

Do I really trust him about the young players starting next year that didn’t this past season? Not really. The minimum is 2 supposedly, which at least includes Bertuzzi. That doesn’t count lol.

Posted by ilovehomers on 04/10/18 at 01:03 PM ET

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The minimum is 2 supposedly

For now, but that number is likely to go down on or around July 1st.

Posted by CharDeeMacDennis on 04/10/18 at 01:14 PM ET

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He even used the word “rebuild”

My problem with KH leading the rebuild that he has been denying the rebuild (in words and actions) for all these years. He had to start it the minute Dats told him he is leaving (although some would say when Lids left). He is doing the rebuild now only because the team bottomed out by itself despite his true efforts to make it 2% better and make the playoffs even this season. So, this rebuild is not orchestrated by KH, he just has no choice when the team he constructed with a highest NHL payroll with a plan to make the playoffs finishes 26th in the league 24 points out of the playoffs.

Posted by VPalmer on 04/10/18 at 01:18 PM ET

d ca's avatar

Ken Holland: ... won’t play the young guy before they’re ready. Blashill comes back for another year.

^^^A slap in the face to Wings fans if I’ve ever seen one.

This foreshadows another couple bad free agent contracts.

Posted by d ca on 04/10/18 at 01:25 PM ET

OlderThanChelios's avatar

Ken Holland: The theme going forward is progress and rebuild. But we won’t play the young guy before they’re ready.

That statement on it’s face make complete sense. No one should play before they’re “ready.” The problem has been in determining exactly what “ready” means and then actually moving the kids in when they reach that point.

The bottom line is Holland has said a thousand times that he doesn’t want his young guys to be “ripe.” He’s said he wants them to be “over-ripe.” I guess we’ll see with Hronek, Rasmussen and maybe Cholowski how flexible he’s now willing to be in that regard.

people will say they were bad contracts, doesn’t matter.

Apparently Chris I feels the same way. A competent owner would look at Holland’s track record of bad contracts (Helm, Abby, etc.) plus his lousy signings (ala Stephen Weiss) and terrible trades (Legwand, Cole, etc.) and say, “You know what, Kenny? Those things make a difference to me. You’re fired.”

Instead he gave him a new two-year contract. And it’s just as bad a contract as any that Holland has handed out. Must be why they get along so well.

Posted by OlderThanChelios from Grand Rapids, MI on 04/10/18 at 01:32 PM ET

PierreC's avatar

this prove that KH has officially given up on any kind of positive results for next year. Might as well spent Blashill last year of contract into a meaningless season, and then bring the REAL coach the next season

Posted by PierreC from Montreal, Canada on 04/10/18 at 01:32 PM ET

PierreC's avatar

the only players happy about the return of Blashill are the vets…

It guarantees a ton of ice time for them, results or not.

Posted by PierreC from Montreal, Canada on 04/10/18 at 01:44 PM ET

ilovehomers's avatar

Posted by PierreC from Montreal, Canada on 04/10/18 at 02:44 PM ET

And Larkin! smile

Posted by ilovehomers on 04/10/18 at 01:45 PM ET

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we are going to give michael rasmussen a chance to make the roster.

I’m honestly curious where he would slot in.
Forwards under contract back next year are:
Zetterberg, Nielsen, Nyquist, Abdelkader, Helm, Glendening, Witowski.
RFAs who will re-sign:
Larkin, Mantha, Bertuzzi
Up in the air:
Athanasiou, Frk, Svechnikov

Would they keep Svechnikov in GR to give Rasmussen a spot on the 4th line? If they trade AA does he get that spot or do they sign another vet as a “place holder”? There is no room for him if you bring back all of AA, Frk, and Svech, and if they’re truly committed to this rebuild they can’t keep Svech in GR.
I’ll believe it when I see spots being actively opened up but until then I don’t see how he gets on the roster next year.

Posted by Manthanasiou87 on 04/10/18 at 01:46 PM ET

ilovehomers's avatar

@BradGalli
Dylan Larkin on Jeff Blashill: “He has a good grasp on the room. A credit to him: he never gave up on us.”


...

#RedWings Larkin “I feel the progress…we battled hard.”

Posted by ilovehomers on 04/10/18 at 01:47 PM ET

MurrayChadwick's avatar

this prove that KH has officially given up on any kind of positive results for next year.
Posted by PierreC from Montreal, Canada on 04/10/18 at 02:32 PM ET

As he should, an off-season trade for futures, another solid deadline trade or 2 for even more futures, another top 10 pick next year, spin all them ingredients together with what we have in the prospect/pick pantry and your baking a cake that might rise to a championship levels in 2-4 years.

Cut the process short now, and we’re just another also ran that’s decent.

No thanks, time to tank is not over after 2 seasons.

Posted by MurrayChadwick from Holland Hate Hyperbole Town (HHHT) on 04/10/18 at 01:48 PM ET

MurrayChadwick's avatar

Posted by ilovehomers on 04/10/18 at 02:47 PM ET

I’m sorry but what would a guy in the room know about what is going on it them room? Why does that even matter? He sucks because we say he sucks.

Posted by MurrayChadwick from Holland Hate Hyperbole Town (HHHT) on 04/10/18 at 01:50 PM ET

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This is why it matters that those contracts are bad. If Rasmussen plays lights out and proves he belongs, you either have to move another young player off the roster who also belongs or send him back to juniors.

Posted by Manthanasiou87 on 04/10/18 at 01:52 PM ET

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Kenny IMO gets a break for Franzen and Datsyuk’s contracts because of stupid NHL rules that don’t allow relief in these situations. As for retaining him, not sure mainly because I’m in fear of them promoting someone already in the organization. While I criticize Blashill, I not familiar with restrictions, if any he works under. The team looked decent at the end of the season, not sure if it was in spite of Blashill or because of him
I would end his coaching, because the same problems still exist in the wing’s game, for three seasons now.

Posted by stateofmifan on 04/10/18 at 01:53 PM ET

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They need to move older players, I wouldn’t give up any young talent, a lengthy rebuild and the older players will be beyond their peak years and need to be moved anyways. Would talk to RFAs and ask them to consider contracts loaded up more towards the end so I could unload older players by retaining part of their salary.. that way they could get playing time.

Posted by stateofmifan on 04/10/18 at 02:31 PM ET

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The only way to move Abby, Helm, Nielsen, DeKeseser, Ericsson’s contracts is to include a prospect.  Because there is a limit of retaining two salaries, I would use that to improve trade deadline moves.  I seriously doubt Zetterberg plays after next year, so we will still have his and Kronwall’s contract for one more year.

Hopefully, Holland doesn’t add any more veteran contracts in the off-season.  But, the reality is we are going be in the same predicament next year.  I don’t think moving prospects to move contracts will speed up the rebuild.  I just hope there will be a few more kids to watch….and look to the future.

Posted by NEWing on 04/10/18 at 03:23 PM ET

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Blashill comes back for another year.

I am not as critical of Blashill as some other people here, but he deserves to be fired for one thing - pathetic PP.

Posted by VPalmer on 04/10/18 at 03:37 PM ET

TreKronor's avatar

Again though, like I said yesterday - are you willing to move out an Abdelkader or Helm contract and give up a 2nd or 3rd rounder to move them?  Because no team takes them without getting a decent pick as well.

We are in the position where we need to be drafting as many players which we can in the first, second, and third rounds...which is EXACTLY what we are doing.  Now is not the time to give up valuable picks just to move out inflated contracts.

So many people want to dwell on the past.  Things are changing.  Things are progressing the way they should.  Should they have started a few years ago?  Yes.  But they didn’t, so let’s just move on.

Five years ago my wife got really mad at me for buying a TV without her agreeing to it.  Fortunately she doesn’t hate KH as much as you all, or she’d still hold it over my head every day.  We can’t change the past…can only change how we handle things in the future.

Posted by TreKronor on 04/10/18 at 03:38 PM ET

bigfrog's avatar

Hopefully, Holland doesn’t add any more veteran contracts in the off-season.

He shouldn’t, but he may do a one year contract for someone like Vanek. He may also resign Green for the right price and term. confused

Posted by bigfrog on 04/10/18 at 03:41 PM ET

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Still in morning over Blashill’s return. Detroit honors bad performance .Maybe they’re looking for another top pick again.

Posted by stateofmifan on 04/10/18 at 04:14 PM ET

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We can’t change the past…can only change how we handle things in the future.

But past actions are usually indicative of what we will see in the future. The only thing KH did that was kind of “not his thing” in the past 5 years is trading Tatar. It’s not a matter of liking KH or not liking him ( KH is honest and loyal and I love these qualities in life), it’s a matter of the fact that this team needs a change of direction and with KH, it will not happen.

Posted by VPalmer on 04/10/18 at 04:36 PM ET

Primis's avatar

That statement on it’s face make complete sense. No one should play before they’re “ready.” The problem has been in determining exactly what “ready” means and then actually moving the kids in when they reach that point.

The bottom line is Holland has said a thousand times that he doesn’t want his young guys to be “ripe.” He’s said he wants them to be “over-ripe.” I guess we’ll see with Hronek, Rasmussen and maybe Cholowski how flexible he’s now willing to be in that regard.

Posted by OlderThanChelios from Grand Rapids, MI on 04/10/18 at 02:32 PM ET

The frustration here is that they absolutely made an exception with Larkin, who was definitely not yet Over Ripe, and that worked out fairly well.  So I mean… why on earth would you stick with that mentality?

I will be absolutely gobsmacked if there’s much Rasmussen can do to make the team next year.  He still has a year of junior eligibility, so he’s going to have to light the world on absolute fire to get Kenny to not just do the safe and easy thing and send him back down to the WHL.  Even though it looks like Rasmusen doesn’t have much left to do in juniors.

Posted by Primis on 04/10/18 at 05:07 PM ET

OlderThanChelios's avatar

(Rasmussen) still has a year of junior eligibility, so he’s going to have to light the world on absolute fire to get Kenny to not just do the safe and easy thing and send him back down to the WHL.  Even though it looks like Rasmusen doesn’t have much left to do in juniors.

Posted by Primis on 04/10/18 at 06:07 PM ET

And that’s why Rasmussen will probably be the best indicator of whether or not the Wings really do have a new mind-set where the young guys are concerned. If he comes in and does even a little better than what he did last September (which I thought was pretty damn impressive) and they still send him back to the WHL, we can write off the next two years.

But if they really do give the kid a legitimate shot (at least for the 9 games they can play him without keeping him in Detroit), then there might be hope – unless, of course, they have him play all nine of those games on the 4th line with Glendenning and Witkowski just so they can say, “Look, he hasn’t scored like he should so he’s obviously not ‘ripe’ yet.”

The bottom line for me is that I just don’t trust one damn thing either Holland or Blashill says. They can talk all they want. The only thing that will convince me things have changed is to actually see things change.

Posted by OlderThanChelios from Grand Rapids, MI on 04/10/18 at 05:35 PM ET

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—-I’m hoping and expecting that minimum of two, maybe four or five kids between the ages of 19 and 22 are on the roster next year that weren’t on the team to start this year,” Holland said. “I want to get those young people onto this roster when I think that they can help us be competitive.”
—-And that’s exactly why I feel KH is not the right person for a true rebuild. Young players should be in the lineup to grow and develop and not to make us competitive next year imo. So what if Rasmusen will not be as good as Abby or Helm next year? Is this the most important thing next season?

Posted by VPalmer on 04/10/18 at 06:44 PM ET

ilovehomers's avatar

Posted by VPalmer on 04/10/18 at 07:44 PM ET

VP, look at that play on words.

“...that weren’t on the team to start this year.”

Which means Bertuzzi would technically already be one. Realistically then, you choose between hicketts/chevy/turgeon. It’s a max of 3 “new” players at best, imo.

Bert, Hicketts (if no green) and Chevy (if no frk or AA).

Posted by ilovehomers on 04/10/18 at 06:52 PM ET

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KH did admit our defense is old and we have not drafted/developed dmen well.
At lesst he did not say it does not matter.

Posted by VPalmer on 04/10/18 at 07:04 PM ET

Colin's avatar

On young players:

We can absolutely have our cake and eat it too.

72-71-39
40-51-14
59-Rasmussen-77
8-41-42/43

Once again, defense will be the struggle.

Green should not be renewed.
Ouellet must be traded.
You then have 1 spot open on defense.

We will have to probably move Jensen as well or entertain a trade for DeKeyser because you already know that Kronwall is untouchable and Ericsson’s contract is only tradeable in its last year. I also don’t want us to move Daley this season.

For those asking for buyouts, if it’s two years or under left it isn’t worth it. That player will help us tank anyway so we keep racking up high picks, and his contract will be over before we even need the cap space to compete for a cup. This applies to Kronwall, Howard, Nyquist, and Ericsson. Nyquist can get traded at the deadline for a similar haul to what Tatar got us. Ericsson could be moved at the next deadline with retained salary. If it’s longer than that, kindly shut up. With all the people bitching about the Weiss buyout, I can’t believe you would then suggest buying out a player like Helm (3YL/6Y buyout), Nielsen (3YL/6Y buyout), or Abdelkader (5YL/10Y buyout) as a solution for our roster troubles. If you want this team to have a popsicle’s chance in hell at winning a cup in 4 years, you CANNOT have that much dead space for that long on the books.

You make ONLY the moves you can make without saddling this team with dead salary for the future if you really want to win. The right move as it stands right now is to be patient, make the easy moves where you can, and allow the remaining bad contracts to come off the books naturally.

Nyquist, Kronwall, Witkowski, and Howard are gone next year. Ericsson and Daley after that. Zetterberg, Helm, Glendening, and the Weiss buyout after that.

It’s going to be okay. Kenny has shown the ability to fleece buying GMs the last two years. He has shown aptitude at drafting (if you don’t agree you’re not allowed to bitch about the logjam). That’s what we need right now beyond anything else. A 2-year deal is the GM equivalent of a show-me contract.

If you want to refute what I’m saying, you must provide 1 GOOD replacement who was AVAILABLE before we re-signed Kenny.

Posted by Colin from Ken Holland's new yacht, "Incompetence" on 04/11/18 at 09:37 AM ET

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Nyquist, Kronwall, Witkowski, and Howard are gone next year.

If I had to guess, both Howard and Nyquist will be resigned to new contracts in the middle of next season. If they are not, maybe KH is changing, but I will believe it when I see it. And it’s possible that Howard will just have to be resigned as we need to have at least one NHL goalie

1 GOOD replacement who was AVAILABLE before we re-signed Kenny.

We just don’t know who is/was/will be available and I am sure Chris Ilitch does not know either because he went the easy way and did not do his homework (my assumption here). Maybe Paul Fenton is finally ready to come out of the shadow of Poile and lead his own team. Maybe some other assistant GMs from successful teams are/will be available.

I mostly agree with the rest.

Posted by VPalmer on 04/11/18 at 09:52 AM ET

Colin's avatar

If I had to guess, both Howard and Nyquist will be resigned to new contracts in the middle of next season. If they are not, maybe KH is changing, but I will believe it when I see it. And it’s possible that Howard will just have to be resigned as we need to have at least one NHL goalie

I can see where you’re coming from here. Howard may be re-signed, unless the team can find something better on the free agent market. Either way, it will be at a significant discount from his current contract and with short term. Either way, that doesn’t exacerbate or relieve any sort of log jam.

Nyquist is a bit more of a complicated situation. The only way I see us re-signing him is if we trade Athanasiou and Nyquist & the team in general are having a great season. I don’t really see the latter happening at all, so I doubt we see him back. Something else to consider is that I really don’t see Kenny pursuing a long-term deal with Nyquist, which may lead Nyquist to look elsewhere for his payday. Kenny will try to re-sign Nyquist, but my money is on a deadline trade.

We just don’t know who is/was/will be available and I am sure Chris Ilitch does not know either because he went the easy way and did not do his homework (my assumption here). Maybe Paul Fenton is finally ready to come out of the shadow of Poile and lead his own team. Maybe some other assistant GMs from successful teams are/will be available.

I mostly agree with the rest.

Posted by VPalmer on 04/11/18 at 10:52 AM ET

Paul Fenton is on my short list of people I would want running this team with Yzerman and Cheveldayoff. Let’s dive into this though regarding Fenton, as there is absolutely no way Yzerman and Cheveldayoff would leave their teams this year.

In regards to this season, I don’t think landing Fenton would be at all doable and it honestly wasn’t prudent to even pursue this year. This draft will be the most important draft for this organization since Yzerman. In order to land someone like Fenton, he and the Predators would have to make himself available for negotiations while the Predators are Cup favorites going into the playoffs (good luck). We would then have to negotiate with him among another handful plus of teams with possibly better cap situations or existing young assets to land him. This process could last all through the playoffs, which for a team staring down a draft where the worst case scenario is drafting 8th needs to be spending all their time and effort developing a draft plan.

I know that it’s frustrating, but Kenny is the best choice for this franchise for at least this year. .

Posted by Colin from Ken Holland's new yacht, "Incompetence" on 04/11/18 at 11:59 AM ET

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Welcome to Abel to Yzerman, a Red Wing blog since 1977.  No other site on the internet has better-researched, fact-laden and better prepared discussions than A2Y.  Re-phrase: we do little research, find facts and stats highly overrated and claim little to no preparation.  There are 19 readers of A2Y. No more, no less. All of them, except maybe one, are juvenile in nature.  Reminding them of that in the comment section will only encourage them to prove that. Your suggestions and critiques are welcome: wphoulihan@gmail.com