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Abel to Yzerman

Jacob de la Rose Traded To St. Louis For Robby Fabbri

(Nov. 6, 2019) – St. Louis Blues President of Hockey Operations and General Manager Doug Armstrong announced tonight the Blues have acquired forward Jacob de la Rose from the Detroit Red Wings in exchange for forward Robby Fabbri. 

De la Rose, 24, was originally drafted by the Montreal Canadiens in the second round, 34th overall, of the 2013 NHL Entry Draft.  This season, the 6’3, 215-pound forward has appeared in 16 games with the Red Wings, collecting a goal and three assists.  Overall, de la Rose has dressed in 195 career regular-season games between the Canadiens and Red Wings, totaling 32 points (12 goals, 20 assists) and 71 penalty minutes.  In addition, the Arvika, Sweden, native captured a gold medal with Team Sweden at the 2018 World Championships.

Fabbri, 23, was originally drafted by the Blues in the first round, 21st overall, of the 2014 NHL Entry Draft.  In four seasons with the Blues, the Mississauga, Ontario, native amassed 73 points (32 goals, 41 assists) and 60 penalty minutes in 164 regular-season games.  Fabbri also appeared in 30 postseason games with the Blues, including 10 last season when he helped the team capture the 2019 Stanley Cup Championship.

added 11:28pm, Detroit release is below.

DETROIT – The Detroit Red Wings today acquired center Robby Fabbri from the St. Louis Blues in exchange for center Jacob de la Rose.

Fabbri, 23, has appeared in 164 NHL games, all with St. Louis, since 2015-16, notching 73 points (32-41-73) and 60 penalty minutes. In 2019-20, Fabbri has skated in nine games, posting one point (1-0-1), two penalty minutes and seven shots on goal in 9:42 average time on ice. A 5-foot-10, 190-pound forward, Fabbri ranked seventh on the Blues in points in 2015-16, totaling 37 points (18-19-37) in 72 regular-season games as a rookie and tied for the team lead in postseason scoring with 15 points (4-11-15) in 20 games during the 2016 Stanley Cup Playoffs. He was limited to just 83 games played over the next three seasons, including missing the entire 2017-18 campaign due to knee injuries. Fabbri was a member of the Blues’ 2019 Stanley Cup championship run, chipping in six points (2-4-6) in 32-regular season games and one point (1-0-1) in 10 playoff games after returning to the lineup on Nov. 1, 2018 vs. Vegas in what was his first game since Feb. 4, 2017.

Originally drafted by St. Louis in the first round (21st overall) of the 2014 NHL Entry Draft, Fabbri jumped straight to the NHL after his final season of major junior hockey, where he racked up 171 points (80-91-171) in 147 games with the Ontario Hockey League’s Guelph Storm from 2012-15, in addition to 33 points (14-19-33) in 30 postseason games. Fabbri posted a junior career-high 87 points (45-42-87) in 58 games with Guelph in 2013-14, where he was a teammate of Red Wings forward Tyler Bertuzzi on the eventual OHL-champion Storm. Fabbri won the Wayne Gretzky 99 Award as the most-valuable player in the playoffs after notching 28 points (13-15-28) in 16 games en route to capturing the OHL’s J. Ross Robertson Cup as league champions. The Mississauga, Ontario, native owns two gold medals from international play with Canada from the 2013 Ivan Hlinka Memorial Tournament (0-1-1 in five games) and 2015 IIHF World Junior Championship (2-4-6 in five games).

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Comments

Figaro's avatar

Stevie never sleeps.

Posted by Figaro from Los Alamos, NM on 11/06/19 at 11:21 PM ET

Paul's avatar

Me either, but almost for this one.

Posted by Paul from Motown Area on 11/06/19 at 11:22 PM ET

Paul's avatar

Ben Frederickson of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch answered a fan question yesterday on Fabrri,

There seems to be some level of tension there. Gotta wonder how sustainable the situation is, and if it ends in a trade at some point. Fabbri felt he was playing his best hockey—then started getting scratched. For whatever reasons, he and Berube have never really hit it off in terms of role and playing time. Tarasenko’s injury was a potential turning point. It hasn’t happened.

I’m not sure Fabbri plays a physical enough style consistently enough to be one of Berube’s favorites.

 

Posted by Paul from Motown Area on 11/06/19 at 11:40 PM ET

Paul's avatar

Lou Korac tweet,

I’ve always had candid interviews with Fabbri, before injuries and after. We stay biased when covering athletes but I was pulling for him to pull through his injuries and get his game back. Too bad. But it just wasn’t happening here. He had such promise pre-injuries.

Posted by Paul from Motown Area on 11/06/19 at 11:44 PM ET

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Wow.

Not two players you expect to see in one for one trade.

But de la Rose is still young and can give them another big,
defensively responsible player for their bottom line.

Interesting Stevie is active auditioning multiple guys who were
highly-touted as offensive players but have fallen out of favor.

Posted by lefty.30 on 11/06/19 at 11:55 PM ET

Down River Dan's avatar

So, he’s a non-physical 5’ 10” winger who’s injury prone…..

He’s only making 900k and is a RFA at season end, but that’s identical to De-La-Rose, so not a contract dump.

Erne, Perlinni, Fabbri…not sure I see a bright light at the end of this tunnel…..but it’s a Process….

confused

Posted by Down River Dan on 11/06/19 at 11:56 PM ET

Paul's avatar

Perlini, Larkin and Fabbri all 1st round picks in 2014.

Posted by Paul from Motown Area on 11/06/19 at 11:57 PM ET

Paul's avatar

Dan Rosen tweet,

I understand this from the Blues perspective seeing that Fabbri didn’t really have a significant enough role anymore, but this could be a sneaky good trade for the Red Wings by Steve Yzerman. Fabbri has talent. The injuries de-railed him in St. Louis. He should play in Detroit.

Posted by Paul from Motown Area on 11/07/19 at 12:02 AM ET

Avatar

Didn’t someone in another thread say they wished Stevie had picked up a reclaimation Project?

Posted by howeandhowe from Seattle on 11/07/19 at 12:31 AM ET

ilovehomers's avatar

Berube, asked several days ago about Fabbri being scratched, said, “I just didn’t see enough I guess in the last game and went with a different guy. Blais is ready to go. He’s played well this year. He felt good and he was ready to go. And I like Mackenzie MacEachern and what he gives us. He goes out and forechecks hard. He skates. He gets on top of people. He’s an aggressive player and I’ve liked his game. So I kept him in there.”

Posted by ilovehomers on 11/07/19 at 12:49 AM ET

ilovehomers's avatar

Yzerman has been super active. I like it. It gives power to all the folks who all along critiqued Kenny’s stagnation.

Regula - Perlini is a TBD and theres a miniscule chance that the 4th turns into anything better than Erne.

This trade specifically is nice because we flushed a 4th line turd for, hopefully, some scoring. And if it doesnt pan out? Whatever. No loss at all.

Now, the growing theme ive been reading is that Y must not like our F prospects. I dont think thats necessarily true, as its a lost season anyway. But when Svech cant stick, thats worrisome, too.

Posted by ilovehomers on 11/07/19 at 12:57 AM ET

Royal Grand Exalted PooBah's avatar

Come to Detroit and prove them wrong. I

Posted by Royal Grand Exalted PooBah from the basement of the Alamo on 11/07/19 at 03:31 AM ET

damndog revenge   From the bowels of Detroit's avatar

Wow
Mildly shocked to this trade.over coffee this morning. I am surprised to see DLR go since he has been one of our best defensive forwards (lead the Wings in giveaway/takeaway differential). Not saying it wasn’t the correct thing to do. But the wings got another disgruntled former 1st Rd pick for a 4 liner. Let’s hope Fabby can reestablish his scoring touch.

Posted by damndog revenge From the bowels of Detroit on 11/07/19 at 05:50 AM ET

Kate from PA now in SC-made in Detroit's avatar

Coffee with a trade first thing this morning. Shake and bake Mr. Yzerman. On a more serious note, after the game last night the Wings were seen boarding the bus. As the bus departed a despondent Jimmy Howard jumped out in front of the oncoming vehicle. It went right past him through the 5 hole…..... wink

Lets Go Red Wings!!!!!

Posted by Kate from PA now in SC-made in Detroit on 11/07/19 at 07:09 AM ET

Primis's avatar

We’ll see I guess.

I liked the Perlini trade.  This one I’m slightly less enthused about, because they took a player off the roster to get a guy in return that has been healthy scratched a bunch and that there’s a fair chance is just a 4th liner himself.

When they acquired de la Rose off waivers he brought a jolt of winning ot the faceoff dot.  Sometime during this slump his FO% fell off along with Larkin’s and everyone else, so I guess they maybe felt he’d become redundant.

This plus the Perlini deal though, now I’m not sure what Yzerman is doing.  He’s not trading away the right assets here.  It’s complete and utter bullsh*t that he trades away Regula and de la Rose while Filppula, Helm, Abdelkader, Nielsen, etc, all just merrily go on playing every game hurting the team.  That’s the deadweight DET has to rid themselves of, and until they do none of it will matter.

Posted by Primis on 11/07/19 at 07:55 AM ET

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It’s complete and utter bullsh*t that he trades away Regula and de la Rose while Filppula, Helm, Abdelkader, Nielsen, etc, all just merrily go on playing every game hurting the team. 


Regula was years away from POTENTIALLY having a chance to crack the lineup and DLR was a redundant piece that was picked off the scrap heap for nothing. These are low risk moves. I understand everyone wants Filppula, Helm, Abdelkader, Nielsen, etc moved, but what you’re missing here is that NOBODY ELSE WANTS THEM EITHER. You’d have to offer additional assets or take back garbage in exchange.

Posted by MZ2215 on 11/07/19 at 08:29 AM ET

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Posted by Primis on 11/07/19 at 07:55 AM ET

I am sure these are the calls that Stevie is getting.

GM:  Hey Steve, we are really felling good about our team right now, maybe a little too good.

SY: Yeah, I’m listening.

GM:  Do you by chance have any over age, slow, under-performing players?

SY:  Maybe

GM:  Well they would need to be overpaid too, we have entirely to much cap space over here, maybe extra term?

SY:  I got you fam

It would have to be this, or we would have to give away additional assets to get rid of the players you listed.

Perlini and Fabbri are two low risk deals with the possibility of high end reward.  It is a dead season, and we have a glut of middling forwards and #7 dmen, why not take a chance to get some upside potential.

Posted by murph1jj on 11/07/19 at 08:47 AM ET

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I like Steve’s swaps, he’s picking players that have either a defined or unknown potential. I wasn’t for Filppula but his game is consistent and is seems to be working, Perlini looks good to me. The game, we win 58% of the faceoffs and the outcome was the same. Jeff allows or even worse coaches this team to play reactive hockey (chase the puck, rather than anticipate and covering the only possible moves a player can make). Even our first line looked a step behind most of the night. Jeff’s pep talk must be similar to something my uncle would say, “I got a job for you, picking fly sh.t out of pepper with boxing gloves on”.

Posted by stateofmifan on 11/07/19 at 08:50 AM ET

MurrayChadwick's avatar

Didn’t someone in another thread say they wished Stevie had picked up a reclaimation Project?
Posted by howeandhowe from Seattle on 11/07/19 at 12:31 AM ET

I did but it was in regard to signing flipula, I said I would’ve rather he went with to $1.5MM 1 year reclamation projects, but hey, we had a lot of non-offensively skilled center talent, we move that for a possible reclamation project ok.

Posted by MurrayChadwick from YzerGod's pixie dust fueled bandwagon on 11/07/19 at 09:01 AM ET

MurrayChadwick's avatar

This plus the Perlini deal though, now I’m not sure what Yzerman is doing.  He’s not trading away the right assets here.  It’s complete and utter bullsh*t that he trades away Regula and de la Rose while Filppula, Helm, Abdelkader, Nielsen, etc, all just merrily go on playing every game hurting the team.  That’s the deadweight DET has to rid themselves of, and until they do none of it will matter.

Posted by Primis on 11/07/19 at 07:55 AM ET

Woah Primus, you must still be REALLY high off some big offseason hype huffs of that pixie dust from the Yzergod introduction news conference to think he’s gonna wave his GM Wands and woosh away any of that deadwood. You need to check yourself into a clinic, your much smarter than that, you know better.  T

here’s no GM on the planet without tying up the family of the other GM in the arena basement that’s going to be able to trade that pile for something tangible, maybe Helm, but frankly Helm has been just fine this year IMO, I am 100% fine with waiting until the deadline to make that move.

Posted by MurrayChadwick from YzerGod's pixie dust fueled bandwagon on 11/07/19 at 09:13 AM ET

Primis's avatar

Posted by MZ2215 on 11/07/19 at 08:29 AM ET

Posted by murph1jj on 11/07/19 at 08:47 AM ET

I’m not saying any of those guys ARE tradeable.  What I’m saying is that as long as they’re present, playing on the roster, none of these other moves will make a difference.

It’s a little odd.  Does it mean (if you believe this is about the long game) that Yzerman doesn’t believe in Svechnikov, Zadina, Veleno, Rasmussen, etc?  Because if he’s not making these moves for Now, is he going to have Fabbri and Perlini sitting there stopping those other guys from getting a call-up eventually?

I think the intention here is more about Now than people are realizing.  He’s trying to tweak things and somehow get everyone “going” so DET is more competitive without getting older still.  Winning maybe won’t happen, but Yzerman certainly doesn’t like the “losing and losing badly” aspect of it.  We all know how competitive he is.  And I guess that’s what’s given me pause with this trade.  We already can’t seem to get people to give the kids much of a shot at the NHL level, so we’re going to bring in more young guys still to make it even harder for them to crack the lineup?

Maybe they toss Fabbri into centering the second line here and things quickly click and DET has two scoring lines, and this is all worrying for naught, I don’t know.

I’m a little worried that while preaching patience, Steve is getting impatient because of the way they’re losing.  Which eads me to ask:  is it really better to have Perlini and Fabbri in the lineup than some of the other kids?

All DET needs, and all we as fans want, is to see someone get fed up and sit Nielsen and Fil for a few games, maybe call a kid up to give him Top Nine icetime, and see what they can make of it.

Posted by Primis on 11/07/19 at 09:13 AM ET

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It’s a little odd.  Does it mean (if you believe this is about the long game) that Yzerman doesn’t believe in Svechnikov, Zadina, Veleno, Rasmussen, etc?  Because if he’s not making these moves for Now, is he going to have Fabbri and Perlini sitting there stopping those other guys from getting a call-up eventually?

It’s not though. It means they’re not ready to be full time NHLers and he doesn’t want to throw them into this shitstorm to have their dicks kicked in night after night. Fabri and Perlini are both RFA’s after this season. If they’re worth a damn they get to stick around, if not they don’t. All he’s trying to do at this point is find some high upside low risk guys that could make the team semi-competitive this year.

 

Posted by MZ2215 on 11/07/19 at 09:22 AM ET

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I like this trade.

We picked up DLR off waivers, and he’s had a heart condition, more than once.
Hes a career bottom 6 player with no offense, and he’s in the last year of his contract.
career 12G 20A 32 Pts in 195 reg season games   (.164 ppg)
career 0G 0A 0Pts in 12 playoff games   (.000 ppg)

Fabbri was a first round pick (6 picks behind Larkin) and also in the last year of his contract.
career 32G 41A 73Pts in 164 reg season games   (.445 ppg)
career 5G 11A 16Pts in 30 playoff games   (.533 ppg)

The kid led the blues in playoff scoring as a rookie with 15 pts in 20 games in the 15/16 season and then only played 80 some games over the next three years due to knee injuries…

If he can come back and get anywhere near that form again, we will have won this trade big time.
If not, we lost DLR, no biggie.

The wings roster is full of players like Helm, Neilsen, Flip, Abby, Glenny, DLR, Ehn, Erne, etc… who we are told are all good defensively if nothing else…. and yet every game the wings are losing 5-1, 6-1, etc. with these players.  I’m just fine with unloading some of these guys on lottery tickets like Fabbri.

Posted by Matt_in_MI on 11/07/19 at 09:25 AM ET

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I love this move and the Perlini one, and even the Erne one.  I actually loved JDR this year, skated hard, hits, forechecked, had a decent amount of talent, but I’ll trade that any day for offensive potential, with where the wings are at.  THIS is exactly what a rebuilding team should be doing, finding cheap reclamation projects.  If they work, Great, if not, you tried.  Especially when you are trading replacable guys for them, even if you like them.  They have Ehn, Turgeon and many more they can plug in those lines, especially since they have the stupid old mainstays.

Keep up the great work, keep losing for that high pick and picking up guys that could be diamonds that haven’t panned out yet.  Now if he could also swing a deal for Pularjvi we’ll be riding high!

I also agree with Murray, that instead of Fil…. I would have preferred one year prove me contracts, some speed and hunger, not slow and complacent. 

I don’t even care about the Helm’s (who’s been surprisingly pretty decent), abby’s glennys etc.  I hate that they are signed for how long that they are (less so the money), but they need to lose and get an actual high end pick, a top 2, and hopefully not get screwed out of it.

Posted by DieByTheWing on 11/07/19 at 09:32 AM ET

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Now, the growing theme ive been reading is that Y must not like our F prospects.

Which is weird, because Yzerman pretty plainly said that he’s not going to rush his prospects. And the fact that he hasn’t traded any of the Wings’ F prospects would also contradict that thought. If he didn’t like them, he would try to move them, no? Also, I don’t imagine a rebuilding GM is thinking “now that I’ve got Erne, Perlini and Fabbri I don’t need any of those pesky prospects taking up space in the AHL”.

Anyhow, I like this. Never liked the JdlR waiver wire pickup in the first place, since it was yet another fourth liner to add to the pile.

Turning that into a player who may actually have some upside is great, IMO.

Posted by CharDeeMacDennis on 11/07/19 at 09:41 AM ET

MurrayChadwick's avatar

Posted by MZ2215 on 11/07/19 at 09:22 AM ET

This… 2 thumbs up

Posted by MurrayChadwick from YzerGod's pixie dust fueled bandwagon on 11/07/19 at 09:47 AM ET

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Posted by Primis on 11/07/19 at 09:13 AM ET

I get what you are saying, and I do believe that it has something about being competitive this year.  But I don’t think it has as much to do with our prospects.  I couldn’t hardly watch the game last night, it is just ugly at the moment.  But as it pertains to the Perlini and Fabbri deals, neither of these two guys may be on our team in future. 

Let us all admit this is a dead season, and the best thing we can hope from it is that none of our prospects/players get hurt, and we get a top 3 draft pick.  The same can be said for probably the next two years after.

If you look at it from the business sense he took two assets that we could not expect really anything higher than we were currently getting and got two assets with much higher potential ceilings.

Best case scenario, they both find there game and turn into 80% of what they were projected to be.  We then decide if they fit the future vision of the team, including the affect on the prospects yet to come up.  If they do, resign them.  If not, move them for assets that do fit that vision. 

What this also does, if they perform, is make us less reliant on players we currently have, so maybe AA or Mantha becomes movable. 

Either way, from a shear assets to assets view, we are better after the trades than we were before them.  Time will tell if that holds true.

Posted by murph1jj on 11/07/19 at 09:56 AM ET

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I agree it’s a good trade. DLR was a decent enough 4th liner but Fabbri could be…something. And if he’s not something then you’ve really lost nothing.

Does anyone know if Fabbri (when he actually played) was mostly C or W?

Posted by AZWinger on 11/07/19 at 10:34 AM ET

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I’m all for a 3rd line of Fabbri, Perlini and Scevchenko! 

Posted by DieByTheWing on 11/07/19 at 10:53 AM ET

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Posted by MZ2215 on 11/07/19 at 09:22 AM ET

This.

Posted by CharDeeMacDennis on 11/07/19 at 11:08 AM ET

bigfrog's avatar

As someone stated, Steve seems to be throwing things at the wall hoping something sticks. rolleyes  Why not? The season’s shot, so keep on plugging. smile

Posted by bigfrog on 11/07/19 at 12:44 PM ET

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Fabbri, Perlini and Scevchenko

How about Fabbri, Helm and Svech…We’ll call it the AMA line (ACL/MCL/ACL)
grin

Posted by AZWinger on 11/07/19 at 12:56 PM ET

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I’m really not very hopeful for Fabbri (like “the former first rounder” talk). From what I read from St. Louis fans it seems he’s just not the same player he was. The knee problems took a tool on him. Yes he didn’t get a lot of playing time last season but he didn’t deserve a lot more either.
It’s still a very good trade cause he must still have some offense in him and frankly Wings have to try anything at this point. De la Rose will be kinda missed… Some days he was easily the best 4th liner on the team. But overall our 4th line will be fine without him too. We’re not short of options there.

Posted by Dseven on 11/07/19 at 01:19 PM ET

Figaro's avatar

  It’s a little odd.  Does it mean (if you believe this is about the long game) that Yzerman doesn’t believe in Svechnikov, Zadina, Veleno, Rasmussen, etc?  Because if he’s not making these moves for Now, is he going to have Fabbri and Perlini sitting there stopping those other guys from getting a call-up eventually?

It’s not though. It means they’re not ready to be full time NHLers and he doesn’t want to throw them into this shitstorm to have their dicks kicked in night after night. Fabri and Perlini are both RFA’s after this season. If they’re worth a damn they get to stick around, if not they don’t. All he’s trying to do at this point is find some high upside low risk guys that could make the team semi-competitive this year.


Posted by MZ2215 on 11/07/19 at 09:22 AM ET

Not to mention, the more time all our big-name prospects stay together in GR, the more they build chemistry with each other, the idea of which is to create a new core for the team going forward.

Posted by Figaro from Los Alamos, NM on 11/07/19 at 01:35 PM ET

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Does anyone know if Fabbri (when he actually played) was mostly C or W?

Posted by AZWinger on 11/07/19 at 10:34 AM ET

He was drafted as a C, but played on the wing in St. Louis due to them having a plethora of center depth (oreilly, Schenn, Bozak, Sundqvist)    It sounds like they did start him at C for a few preseason games this year though, so maybe there is still some hope that he can be still be a C.

I’m sure he will get that opportunity in Detroit, which does not have near the C depth that St Lous has.
I would have no problem seeing Fabbri get a crack at the 2C spot over guys like Flip, Neilsen, or Helm.

Would be great if Fabbri and AA could form some semblance of a scoring line to take some pressure of the top line, although defense might be an issue with a line like that too.

Posted by Matt_in_MI on 11/07/19 at 01:42 PM ET

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What I’m also hoping this means is that Blash will be pushed to sit the useless offensive guys…

Larkin Mantha Bert
Fabbri AA Perlini (or maybe Erne)
Fil Hirose Perlini/Erne
Glenny Nielsen Helm? 

Posted by DieByTheWing on 11/07/19 at 01:55 PM ET

OlderThanChelios's avatar

As the bus departed a despondent Jimmy Howard jumped out in front of the oncoming vehicle. It went right past him through the 5 hole….....

Posted by Kate from PA now in SC-made in Detroit

It’s nice to see that this season hasn’t completely destroyed your sense of humor, Kate. After all, it really is just about all we have left to hang onto.

Posted by OlderThanChelios from Grand Rapids, MI on 11/07/19 at 06:30 PM ET

Hootinani's avatar

Im good with this trade.  i originally wanted Detroit to draft Fabbri anyways.  Of course that was pre blown out knee.

This season was always going to be a failure points wise, might as well take some short term chances and see if you can win the reclamation lotto.

Posted by Hootinani from the parade following Babs out of town on 11/07/19 at 06:50 PM ET

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One of Detroit’s biggest problems is secondary scoring. It’s far from the only one but is a big one. This and the Perlini trades are ATTEMPTS at addressing that. It’s relatively easy to replace 4th liners like DLR. The Wings have players at the NHL and AHL level who can already fill that role.

Yzerman seems to be stockpiling skill players hoping he’ll hit on one or more. If either of the trades net a fullt-ime 2nd or 3rd line deal it is a win in my book. What they gave up was next to nothing.

I don’t think this is an indictment against the forward prospects. It’s just that none of those guys is ready for the NHL. Yzerman is looking to create more competition starting now. It’s a refreshing change from the Holland, stay the course plan.

I don’t think Yzerman is done, by a long shot. Eventually I suspect we’ll see some of those forward prospects dealt. I think, as a GM, one cannot be afraid to make bold moves.

Keep in mind that Fabbri was a highly touted prospect for a few years. It’s mainly injuries that have hurt his development. Knee injuries can take awhile for full recovery.

Posted by evileye on 11/08/19 at 10:03 AM ET

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Welcome to Abel to Yzerman, a Red Wing blog since 1977.  No other site on the internet has better-researched, fact-laden and better prepared discussions than A2Y.  Re-phrase: we do little research, find facts and stats highly overrated and claim little to no preparation.  There are 19 readers of A2Y. No more, no less. All of them, except maybe one, are juvenile in nature.  Reminding them of that in the comment section will only encourage them to prove that. Your suggestions and critiques are welcome: wphoulihan@gmail.com