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Abel to Yzerman

I NOW Consider THIS To Be The REAL Summer of Ken

Clearly, Ken Holland is elite. Clearly, he is a hall of famer by the most stringent of standards. Clearly, Ken Holland, no matter what he does to ignore this team in the next 45 days or so, remains our savior.

Having said all that, I'm going to say something else that no one else has said, and I'm going to say it so you can say that it was me who got it said: If that contract gets eaten our boy Tick Tock had better go.

Do you want Stamkos? I mean, seriously. Do you? Yes. We do. Are we going to get Stamkos (or Backes, or anyone else other than a 38 year old reclamation) if 7.5 stays on the books? No.

Are you, Kenny, seriously telling us that you're sad and depressed and pessimistic about the Datsyuk contract because you don't want to give up...Pulkkinen?

Holland crafted the contract that the Wings are now about to swallow, whore style. Holland is the sad clown at the microphone telling us this might just be too hard. Holland is the figurehead, the hapless, the apathetic manager who somehow couldn't see that Datsyuk wanted to head home, who unbelievably didn't see this coming and made no preparations for the shit show he's now sitting criss-cross apple sauce right in the middle of. 

Not a management team. Not a trusty core of advisors. Ken Holland. One man is to blame for this and if it doesn't get fixed, if he can't unload that contract to one of Gary's science projects, he needs to go.  

Even if it's not Stamkos, even if you use that 7.5 to improve the team with a couple of other signings, it's better than such a huge chunk of unused money just sitting there. Stagnant. Unused. Unspent. Withering. Willowing. Like a GM.

Holland's quotes are just so predictable. It's so pathetic and it's so routine.

"I'm not overly optimtistic...don't know if it makes a lot of sense...talked to a few teams...kicking tires...I like our team...men's league."

Recycled. Rehashed. Regurgitated for years. The same crap.

Trade that money, Kenny. Trade it. Trade the frigging contract or get the hell out of a job you can't do anymore, or maybe never could.

We know what's going to happen. Every one of us knows it. Datsyuk's contract will remain on the Detroit books because it is simply too hard to move. Too hard for Hapless Holland. It's going to take an agile, creative management mind to do this thing and we haven't seen a creative move from Holland in more than a decade. An honest question might very well be a simple, "what do you do all day?"  Seriously. What the hell does Ken Holland actually do? Because he hasn't, you know, done anything in years.

We're going to eat that contract. Holland's going to stay. More kids will come up. Mediocrity will continue to be accepted. 26 will be the goal. Etc, etc, etc.

How any of us are satisfied with this situation is a mystery. Why this is allowed to fester is mind boggling.

It should be very simple: if the 7.5 stays, Holland goes. If the 7.5 goes, Holland's done his job, or at least repaired a situation that he, himself, created.

What a mess.

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Comments

Avatar

Having said all that, I’m going to say something else that no one else has said, and I’m going to say it so you can say that it was me who got it said: If that contract gets eaten our boy Tick Tock had better go.

Yeah, you sure are the first to say that!  rolleyes

Posted by Garth on 06/21/16 at 07:35 AM ET

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Some of this I agree with but he doesn’t hold all the blame on the Datsyuk situation. When his former agent came asking for a 5-year deal, shouldn’t the agent have asked when Pavel wanted to retire? Shouldn’t have Datsyuk said he might want to retire in a year or two? I put the most blame on the agent because when you are asking for a 5-year deal for your 35 year old player, the first question should be “will you play this full contract out?” These things don’t happen in a vacuum. There is blame to go between all 3 parties involved in this.

Now would I want the cap hit traded? Yes. Would I trade Pulkkinen to do it? Yes. Do I know that’s what other teams are asking for? No. If they are asking for more than Pulkkinen or Jurco and maybe a late round pick, I don’t do it. Florida can sacrifice a 2nd rounder because they have a lot of young talent after sucking for years. Chicago can trade a good young player because they have Kane and Toews after sucking for years. Wings have the talent to sacrifice Teemu and take that risk. Holland said he wanted to improve and be more aggressive through trades after the season. You can’t be aggressive even with trades with 7.5mil of dead cap space. It’s weird had he just said “We might just go with the kids” I wouldn’t have the same mindset I do now.  I’d say “if they trade the cap space great, if not whatever.” But he said he wanted to improve and you cant with 7.5mil on the books. At best you can be is where you were last year.

Posted by tmoore4075 on 06/21/16 at 07:46 AM ET

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Here is the real problem:  The price is not Pulkkinen or Jurco the price right now is Mantha or Svechnikov.  Would anyone in there right mind make that trade for $7.5M in cap space?  Even if Stamkos was a sure thing, you don’t make that trade.  This was relayed yesterday by Helene St. James on Sirrus.

I don’t want Backes.  He is 32, in 4-5 years he is an anchor.  No thanks.

Posted by Wisconsindale on 06/21/16 at 08:09 AM ET

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Here is the real problem:  The price is not Pulkkinen or Jurco the price right now is Mantha or Svechnikov.  Would anyone in there right mind make that trade for $7.5M in cap space?

If that’s the case, hell no. It’s a ONE YEAR hit of $7.5M. Do the best they can to acquire and develop more young talent this year. I don’t care if that makes them bottom feeders for a year or if they miss the playoffs. Elevate some of the younger players into bigger roles and lets see how they do. There is forward depth in the organization. The bigger problem is defense but I’d let all those players without waiver eligibility fight it out. Let them earn their keep. Push them. There is barely room for a new body anyway without a trade.

Detroit doesn’t have to be a cap spending team to be competitive, especially if there real goal is to be great 3-5 years from now.

I’m not thrilled with a lot of what Holland has done to get this team into this mess but I see exactly where he is coming from when he says eating the contract for a year might be the best option. They can give up marginal prospects or mid round draft picks to move the contract but anything more than that is not acceptable. Are there people who really think giving up Mantha’s entire career for one year of an anchor contract is good thing?

Posted by evileye on 06/21/16 at 08:33 AM ET

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I am not a big Ken Holland fan anymore either, but I wouldn’t blame Datsyuk leaving with one year left on his contract on him. If Milstein did in fact ask for 5 years, and if a 1 year deal would have resulted in Datsyuk leaving for the KHL or possibly even another NHL team, all of you would have been calling for his firing then. That being said, plenty of other GMs have had to deal with this problem-trading away a contract-and its his job to deal with it and make it disappear. if he doesn’t, thats a failure on his part. But the whole “he created this mess” is BS. He may not be handling it the right way now(or handling it the right way over the last 6 months) but he didn’t do anything that any other GM wouldn’t have done to keep one of the greatest 2 way players in the world on his team.

Posted by letsmakeit12 on 06/21/16 at 08:40 AM ET

Vladimir16's avatar

If other teams are asking for Mantha or Athanasiou, which who knows what they’re asking, it’s probably because those two guys are the only real prospects that are worth anything. I really don’t believe anything St. James or Khan ever writes though. They’re Holland “fan boys”.
The last 7 summers have been a test for Holland and he’s failed each one of them. This summer should be the one that he either redeems himself or seals his fate.

Posted by Vladimir16 from Grand River Valley on 06/21/16 at 08:44 AM ET

OlderThanChelios's avatar

Seriously. What the hell does Ken Holland actually do? Because he hasn’t, you know, done anything in years.

Clearly you’re forgetting about the trades that brought Legwand, Weiss, and Cole to Detroit. And you’ve forgotten about his decision to give the Bolts his 1st round pick that became Vasielesky) in order to bring back Quincey (who he lost on waivers). And how could you forget his losing Ferraro on waivers so he could keep “I’m in the press box and now back in Sweden” Joakim Andersson?

All of those things take time, my friend, when you’re a hapless as Hapless Holland

Posted by OlderThanChelios from Grand Rapids, MI on 06/21/16 at 08:54 AM ET

OlderThanChelios's avatar

All of those things take time, my friend, when you’re a hapless as Hapless Holland

Well that didn’t come out right. Damn macros. grin

That was supposed to be: “All of those things take time, my friend, when you’re as hapless as Hapless Holland (©captaineclectic).”

Posted by OlderThanChelios from Grand Rapids, MI on 06/21/16 at 08:57 AM ET

Guilherme's avatar

Holland is not a horrible GM, his biggest fault is being too loyal to his players, which leads to an unwillingness to trade and a tendency to overpay for everyone.

Free agency is not his fault, as far as we know he went after every major UFA he could in the last few years. But those overpayments screwed over our situation.

This whole “5/3/1 year deal” for Datsyuk seems really odd to me. I blame Holland and Datsyuk equally.

Posted by Guilherme from Brazsil on 06/21/16 at 09:06 AM ET

Guilherme's avatar

(reading my own comment, I may have been too nice. Holland is average, and the average is really low)

Posted by Guilherme from Brazsil on 06/21/16 at 09:07 AM ET

TreKronor's avatar

If we don’t want to keep Pulk or Jurco, why would any other team want them AND the $7.5 hit? 

The question really has to be, are you okay with giving up Mantha or Svech to get $7.5 off the books for a year? 

And the only real reason I think it’s worth it is if we have a serious shot at Stamkos, which I don’t think we do.

Posted by TreKronor on 06/21/16 at 09:50 AM ET

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We simply don’t know what other teams are asking for in order to take this 7.5 million cap hit off Holland’s hands. Any of the prospects like AA, Mantha,  etc. is asking too much for a 1-year handicapper. Realistically, the Wings won’t get to sign Samkos and I don’t care if they don’t. He may give them a good run for 2-3 years but then they could be stuck with another albatross of a contract. I have nothing against Stamkos but most of these huge deals turn out to be not so great halfway into them.

The biggest issue for me is how Kenny is going to deal with the holes on defence…and no, re-signing Quincey is NOT the answer. The prospects have to be given the opportunity this year or end up being lost on waivers, like some of the other prospect while he kept other players such as Andersson on the roster too long.

His real genius will be in managing the team, with a 7.5 million handicap, and somehow keeping the streak alive. I don’t want it to be kept alive just to make the playoffs, only to get tossed in the first round though, so let the chips fall this season. Make it a youth year, see what you have, and possibly get a high pick next season…if the experiment fails.

Better that than another year of mediocrity!

Posted by NewfieWing on 06/21/16 at 10:15 AM ET

Primis's avatar

“It should be very simple: if the 7.5 stays, Holland goes. If the 7.5 goes, Holland’s done his job, or at least repaired a situation that he, himself, created.”

It’s a ONE YEAR hit of $7.5M. Do the best they can to acquire and develop more young talent this year. I don’t care if that makes them bottom feeders for a year or if they miss the playoffs. Elevate some of the younger players into bigger roles and lets see how they do.

Posted by evileye on 06/21/16 at 09:33 AM ET

A millions times this.

It’s one year.  We’re not getting Stamkos folks.  The cap space is not going to gain us much of anything.

The cries for Holland to trade away assets to fix a problem that will only be present for one season… I don’t get it.  You OBVIOUSLY make a deal there if you can trade away an asset that has no real value.  But I don’t see moving an actual asset with value to the team to make it happen.

So you have a dead cap hit?  Play the kids.  Let them sink or swim, and find out what you have then for next year.  Do what you have refused to do for years and years now.

I find it frustrating that people criticize Holland for trying to keep the “streak” alive, but then fans want him to do sometimes-crazy, drastic things to… what?  Keep the streak alive?  I don’t even know anymore what it is fans want.

Play the kids, find out who isn’t cutting it, move them out.  THAT is how you progress.  That’s not even a rebuild.  That is, in fact, the mythical “retooling”.

But it’s one year of dead money, and this team is *not* contending for a Cup this next season.  With or without Stamkos even.  Sorry, but I think that’s the reality check we need to impose here.

 

Posted by Primis on 06/21/16 at 10:19 AM ET

Hootinani's avatar

Move Pav’s contract or don’t, trade Howard or don’t, sign a free agent or don’t, play the kids or don’t, it doesn’t really matter.  Ken Holland’s time as a competent and productive member of the Red Wings organization is over, as his employment by them should be.

Holland’s only job now is to make excuses for why he doesn’t do the job he was hired to do.

Posted by Hootinani from the parade following Babs out of town on 06/21/16 at 10:25 AM ET

Down River Dan's avatar

Nice to read something from you Chief.

Only wish the news wasn’t so depressing.

Not letting Kenny off the hook, certainly not for some of the moves mentioned by you and others, but strictly relating to the Pavel situation, I think there is Blame enough for all to go around.

I must say Kenny usually has a pretty good poker face,  but listening to the interview on Fan 590 yesterday,  it sounded like Kenny was close to unloading on Pav and his multiple agent/reps. I’m betting his blood pressure was sky high. At least it sounded that way to me?

No matter who ultimately is to blame Chief,  I think you thesis, that Kenny is now on the clock, is pretty accurate.

It sure would’ve been nice to sign Stamkos…. confused

Posted by Down River Dan on 06/21/16 at 10:31 AM ET

Hootinani's avatar

Even if Stamkos was a sure thing, you don’t make that trade.

Let me get this straight.  You wouldnt trade Mantha for Stamkos?  Because thats what your statement boils down too.

I dont believe that Stamkos would come here for the entire Little Caesars Pizza empire, but I would like clarification on your scenario.

Posted by Hootinani from the parade following Babs out of town on 06/21/16 at 10:34 AM ET

Avatar

Here is the real problem:  The price is not Pulkkinen or Jurco the price right now is Mantha or Svechnikov.  Would anyone in there right mind make that trade for $7.5M in cap space?  Even if Stamkos was a sure thing, you don’t make that trade.  This was relayed yesterday by Helene St. James on Sirrus.

Please tell me you didn’t just say you wouldn’t trade Stamkos for Mantha or Svechinov, please tell me that was a mis-print.

Posted by bababooey on 06/21/16 at 10:40 AM ET

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Eat the contract and don’t F**$ things up any more than they already are. It’s kennys job to accurately predict what his players will do and everyone knew Pav was going home. Kennys retirement is long overdue, his excuses are pathetic- plenty of gms are outperforming him in the cap era…

Posted by Bay Area Wings fan on 06/21/16 at 10:56 AM ET

TreKronor's avatar

Let me get this straight.  You wouldnt trade Mantha for Stamkos?  Because thats what your statement boils down too.

But you aren’t trading Mantha for Stamkos.  You are trading Mantha for the rights to negotiate with Stamkos before he becomes a FA

Mantha for Stammer?  Yeah sure I’d take that in a heartbeat.  But heck man.  He won’t sign a deal with TBL, a team nearly able to win the Cup the last two years, so why would he sign with Detroit?

Posted by TreKronor on 06/21/16 at 11:13 AM ET

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But you aren’t trading Mantha for Stamkos.  You are trading Mantha for the rights to negotiate with Stamkos before he becomes a FA. 

Mantha for Stammer?  Yeah sure I’d take that in a heartbeat.  But heck man.  He won’t sign a deal with TBL, a team nearly able to win the Cup the last two years, so why would he sign with Detroit?

That’s not what he said, he said he wouldn’t trade Stamkos for Mantha, “even of Stamkos was a sure thing” he wouldn’t make that trade.  I couldn’t believe my eyes

Posted by bababooey on 06/21/16 at 11:37 AM ET

TreKronor's avatar

even of Stamkos was a sure thing

Ahh I missed that, stuck in the real world here i guess.

Posted by TreKronor on 06/21/16 at 11:42 AM ET

dougie's avatar

Simply put, Datsyuk signed a contract, which he reneged on. How Holland is vilified for not anticipating this is beyond me. Don’t get me wrong, although there are many reasons to criticize the Holland, I just don’t understand this one.

Datsyuk reneged on a valid contract, and should have his ass hauled into court for damages. That’s how the world works, and honorable human beings live their lives.

Probably wont make any friends posting this, but I am all out of shits to give about this situation.

 

 

Posted by dougie on 06/21/16 at 12:22 PM ET

awould's avatar

Any team that needs free salary cap space to reach the cap floor isn’t seriously thinking they’ll get Mantha or AA or anyone of *real* value. They’ll get a spare part to sweeten the deal. The current ask of Mantha, etc. is posturing. If KH can’t get the $7.5MM off the books, it’s because nobody needs it. If someone does need it and KH fails to deliver, then KH is the most incompetent GM in any league ever.

A cap floor team is required to reach the floor, somehow. At a certain point, the pressure will be on them.

Posted by awould on 06/21/16 at 01:00 PM ET

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wow, what a bold statement!  it’s time for kenny to go!

way to go out on a limb.  you are a true trailblazer!

maybe the salty sea air has eaten away at your brain.

Posted by incompetent GM on 06/21/16 at 01:15 PM ET

Rumbear's avatar

Posted by OlderThanChelios from Grand Rapids, MI on 06/21/16 at 09:57 AM ET

Ouch! Fricking ouch…....

Posted by Rumbear from Top O the Hasek, I can see Yzerman from here...... on 06/21/16 at 01:18 PM ET

TreKronor's avatar

In reality there really are only two teams that need one large contract to get them to the Cap Floor:

1) NJ has $9.2 to go to reach the floor, but they only have 11 guys under contract right now.

2) AZ has to spend $18.3 to reach the floor, but they only have 12 guys under contract.

So, that all said, NJ is going to use all of that $9.2 to sign another 12 guys or so.  AZ MIGHT need to add a hefty contract (such as Datsyuk) to get to the floor, but they still have to sign 11 guys or whatever.

It’s not like these teams have full rosters and are still $10 mil under the Floor.

Posted by TreKronor on 06/21/16 at 01:34 PM ET

SYF's avatar

Posted by letsmakeit12 on 06/21/16 at 09:40 AM ET

Except Datsyuk’s agent at the time was Gary Greenstein, who was fired by Datsyuk - most likely due to this gross oversight.

Posted by SYF from impossible and oddly communally possessive sluts on 06/21/16 at 01:51 PM ET

Iggy_Rules's avatar

This blog has too many commas. This blog has well constructed sentences. This blog is a poor imitation of The Puck Stops Here. This blog has the worst possession numbers of any blog on Kukla’s Corner. This blog is clearly not elite.

I NOW consider IwoCPO a Hall of Famer.

Posted by Iggy_Rules from Calgary, Canada on 06/21/16 at 04:03 PM ET

OlderThanChelios's avatar

Ouch! Fricking ouch…....

Posted by Rumbear from Top O the Hasek, fanning the flames, with rum.

Yeah, reality’s a bitch, ain’t it, Rum?

This blog is a poor imitation of The Puck Stops Here.

Posted by Iggy_Rules from Calgary, Canada

Sorry, Iggy, but there are no “imitations” of The Link Goes To Himself. It’s a singular and unique P.O.S. unto itself alone.

Posted by OlderThanChelios from Grand Rapids, MI on 06/21/16 at 10:57 PM ET

RWBill's avatar

Half way there.
The improbable has happened, somehow Kenny got that kid GM who still had to finish some Trig homework for high school after he got home last night from the draft to take the Datsyuk contract, AND give us his first and second round draft picks.

The other half is what can Tick Tock do with what is now about $19M in cap space.

Half way to a really good summer for Tick Tock, maybe the toughest half already completed.

Posted by RWBill on 06/25/16 at 07:45 AM ET

Kate from PA now in SC-made in Detroit's avatar

Home sweet home, Chief. Kenny did good.

Lets Go Red Wings!!!!!

Posted by Kate from PA now in SC-made in Detroit on 06/28/16 at 12:22 PM ET

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Welcome to Abel to Yzerman, a Red Wing blog since 1977.  No other site on the internet has better-researched, fact-laden and better prepared discussions than A2Y.  Re-phrase: we do little research, find facts and stats highly overrated and claim little to no preparation.  There are 19 readers of A2Y. No more, no less. All of them, except maybe one, are juvenile in nature.  Reminding them of that in the comment section will only encourage them to prove that. Your suggestions and critiques are welcome: wphoulihan@gmail.com