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Abel to Yzerman

How About Those Trades

from Helene St. James of the Detroit Free Press,

The Detroit Red Wings look like early winners in the Tomas Tatar trade.

Tatar has joined the list of Wings players who have not performed as expected after leaving Detroit. The Vegas Golden Knights wrote another chapter in their delightful story on Wednesday when the expansion franchise advanced to Round 2 of the Stanley Cup playoffs after completing a four-game sweep of Los Angeles.

That feat, though, came without the services of Tatar, who was a healthy scratch after the first two games of the best-of-seven series. The Wings traded Tatar Feb. 26 in exchange for a first-round pick in 2018, a second-round pick in 2019, and a third-round pick in 2021. At the time of the trade, Tatar had 16 goals in 62 games with Detroit....

 On Feb. 19, the Wings traded Petr Mrazek to the Philadelphia Flyers in exchange for a conditional fourth-round pick in 2018 and a conditional third-round pick in 2019. Mrazek has played in Philadelphia like he did in Detroit: Up and down. He started out 3-0 with a 1.30 goals-against average and .947 save percentage. The next stretch saw him go 0-2-1 with a 4.54 goals-against average and .854 save percentage....

The Wings sent Sheahan to the defending Stanley Cup champions Oct. 21 in exchange for Scott Wilson and a third-round pick in 2018 (Sheahan had yet to score in seven games at the time in Detroit). Sheahan produced 11 goals and 32 points with the Penguins in the regular season (he had one assist the first three playoff games.). 

The Wings flipped Wilson to Buffalo in December, in exchange for a fifth-round pick in 2019....

There’s probably no team that would like to undo a recent trade with the Wings more than the New York Rangers. At the 2017 trade deadline, as defenseman Brendan Smith neared unrestricted free agency, the Wings traded him to the Rangers for third-round pick in 2017 and a second-round pick in 2018 (the 2018 pick was originally Ottawa’s, so it will be the second pick in the second round because the Senators finished 30th in the standings this season). 

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Paul's avatar

from Pat Caputo of the Oakland Press,

The Red Wings seem to be making progress developing much-needed puck-moving defensemen - Yes and no on that front. It’s true that ultimately Dennis Cholowski could be a solid NHL player. His development from his initial season after being taken in the first round by Detroit in 2016, and his second, has been significant. He’s bigger, stronger and an even better power skater, the latter which was already a strength. His puck skills have improved. But is he a potential top-pairing NHL defenseman? That’s an entirely different question, one very much in the air. Filip Hronek (2nd round 2016) was a pleasant surprise this season at Grand Rapids, and Gustav Lindstrom (2nd round in 2017) made progress in Sweden. But top-pairing D-men at any point of their respective NHL careers on a quality team? That’s anything but a certainty.

Michael Rasmussen is dominating during the Memorial Cup playoffs - In the first two rounds, the Red Wings’ future 6-foot-6 power forward (his NHL projection is likely on the wing) has 24 points in eight games. It’s a really good sign, and this isn’t meant to rain on the Rasmussen parade, but it should be considered he has benefitted greatly from playing with two of the best defensemen in junior hockey, Jake Bean (13th overall pick ‘16 by Carolina), and Juuso Valimaki was (No.16 by Calgary in ’17).

continue for more prospect talk…

Posted by Paul from Motown Area on 04/18/18 at 01:31 PM ET

ilovehomers's avatar

teehee

Well, Vegas does need to score. Then again, Tatar isn’t exactly what anyone would call a playoff performer.

Posted by ilovehomers on 04/18/18 at 01:36 PM ET

TreKronor's avatar

Regarding Tatar, I don’t believe Vegas brought him in to be a contributor for this playoff run.  My feeling is they brought him in because he’s locked in at a very reasonable cap hit for a 20+ goal scorer.  Vegas is going to need that in the next few seasons due to the number of young players who will be due raises, and I’d imagine they’ll flip some of these RFA’s for picks.

Posted by TreKronor on 04/18/18 at 01:46 PM ET

TreKronor's avatar

These have all been great trades, though.  Particularly the Smith trade.

Posted by TreKronor on 04/18/18 at 01:47 PM ET

Avatar

Looks like Tatar is their younger/cheaper off-season replacement for James Neal. Or David Perron

Posted by mtta on 04/18/18 at 02:06 PM ET

Paul's avatar

I am sure most of you have noticed the Detroit Free Press, Detroit News and the Wings website have been rehashing features on some of the Detroit players.

Here is Dana Wakiji today on Tyler Bertuzzi.

Posted by Paul from Motown Area on 04/18/18 at 03:05 PM ET

Avatar

Time will tell with all of these picks!

The Smith trade of course looks great - and it was a good move from the start.
If Holland was negotiating with Smith’s camp - but offering a contract he knew they
wouldn’t accept - that may have helped Smith’s value and helped sell the trade.
It must be a fine line, negotiating in good faith but with the dominant goal
of moving the guy. If Holland was seriously trying to re-sign Smith that’s another story.
Either way, it’s turned out well and especially with Ottawa’s collapse.

The Tatar trade was a good move, simply because he was movable for pretty
good value. Tatar is still awfully young (even by current league standards) but
not so young it makes sense paying him 5.3M through his prime on a rebuilding team
with cap problems. Vegas certainly made the deal with long-term scoring in mind. Tatar gives them cost certainty. The scratches are a mild surprise, but he’s on a new team and one that was excellent and unusually cohesive before he arrived.

Philly never seems to make the right choice in goal. I suppose they got enough wins from Mrazek to help them get in, and have a semi-experienced backup in case Elliott gets blown out again. In which case it’s just about over for them anyway. A 3rd round pick seems fair.

Posted by Lefty30 on 04/18/18 at 04:05 PM ET

Primis's avatar

Regarding Tatar, I don’t believe Vegas brought him in to be a contributor for this playoff run.  My feeling is they brought him in because he’s locked in at a very reasonable cap hit for a 20+ goal scorer.  Vegas is going to need that in the next few seasons due to the number of young players who will be due raises, and I’d imagine they’ll flip some of these RFA’s for picks.

Posted by TreKronor on 04/18/18 at 01:46 PM ET

There is noooooo way Vegas traded a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd pick to not get results from him now.

Vegas has exactly one draft worth of prospects in their pipeline.  They won’t have a 1st now this year, and are out a 2nd next (the 3rd comes in 2021, skipping 2020).  That’s a *big* hit to a pipeline of an expansion organization that has basically none and is still try8ng to build one.  Vegas also does not have a 3rd this year.

I’m worried about Vegas’ long-term viability.  If they gamble some of their futures now hoping for results and don’t get them in the first 2 or 3 years…. their younger players are suddenly not young anymore, MA Fleury is gone, and then there’s no prospect pipeline to pull from.

Tatar obviously was more than a rental of course, but… they wanted results now.  They have to be disappointed.

And I feel bad for Tatar.  I don’t want him to fail.  I wish he could have stayed with the Wings.

Posted by Primis on 04/18/18 at 04:41 PM ET

TreKronor's avatar

Yeah of course they wanted results now as well.  I guess I should have made that more clear with my original thought, that this is a long term play for them.

It’s a good bargain on their part - they get a consistent player for another 3 years while they better establish the franchise, as well as someone who has some experience and should help with their playoff run. 

I wouldn’t count him out yet for the post season.  He did manage 4 goals in 16 games with Vegas, so it’s not like he can’t play with the team.  Maybe they wanted to bench him to give him a bit more motivation; it’s not like the team needed to shake up their lineup.

Posted by TreKronor on 04/18/18 at 04:46 PM ET

Avatar

You gotta give it to Holland, he’s managed to get some good assets for players who were not even close to deserving of them.

This shows how many (including us here very frequently) over-value some players at Detroit.  Here’s a look at a year or two of trades:

Tatar - Love watching him play, but overall he seems like he’ll never be more than a complimentary player.  At the time it seemed like a bit of an overpayment and maybe now more-so.

Mrazek - All of us wanted him to be the goalie of the future, but he seems to be a good candidate for the KHL at this point.  Don’t think he was worth the 3rd tbh.

Shaehan - While we all miss tinky-winky, he was pretty invisible for most of his time at Detroit and somehow Detroit got a 3rd; which he might have been worth, not sure.

Vanek - Still think he was worth more than a 3rd, but at least Detroit didn’t sit on him, right?

Smith - Man, NYR really whiffed on this one.  He was worth much, much less than what was paid for.

Jurco - The only thing he can get credit for is a small contribution to the Blackhawks not making the playoffs this year.  A 3rd… really?

Datsyuk to Yotes and pick shifts - Cap stuff aside, Hronek + Chol vs Jakob Chychrun… We’ll see who actually won out on this one some day, but its starting to look like the scouting dept. might have saved Holland on this one to some extent.  Still too early, but it’s pretty clear that Chychrun wouldn’t be doing Detroit much good right now.

If you go to earlier than that, most of the trades before then were pretty rough from Detroit’s standpoint.

Also, if you look at waivers, with the exception of Frk who Detroit managed to get back, did any of the players they lost even stay in the NHL? 

Posted by neffernin on 04/18/18 at 07:05 PM ET

Avatar

If Tatar is scratched by Vegas, most of Red Wings players will be scratched by Vegas.

Posted by VPalmer on 04/18/18 at 07:30 PM ET

Primis's avatar

Also, if you look at waivers, with the exception of Frk who Detroit managed to get back, did any of the players they lost even stay in the NHL?

Posted by neffernin on 04/18/18 at 07:05 PM ET

Nestrasil is in the KHL.  Marchenko is in the KHL.  Ferraro is in the AHL in Minnesota’s system.  Pulkkinen is in the AHL in Vegas’ system.  Matt Ellis split time between Rochester and Buffalo for a couple season and retired after 2016.

I don’t know if I missed any other recent ones.  I don’t think so.  Guys like Wilson and Kindl were trades I know.

Posted by Primis on 04/18/18 at 08:17 PM ET

ilovehomers's avatar

I think it’s also worth it to note that while Kenny is actually getting good value for these pieces on the back end, he is responsible for the team that drafted them in the first place. One of the big complaints about him is he never got value for guys before their trade value hit zero.

But the draft board…this is where Kenny has flopped. And that is where it starts with this team falling apart

Posted by ilovehomers on 04/18/18 at 08:45 PM ET

Avatar

Yeah these guys invalidate the common complaints about Holland. Think the “over-seasoning” concept was BS to tell people, instead of the truth that they had a poor prospect pipeline from below average drafts.

Holland secretly wants nothing more than to see Rasmussen on the second line next year and get 50+ points from him. This happens it boinks all the haters with one stone.

Posted by mtta on 04/18/18 at 11:45 PM ET

Gary A$$ SUCK !!'s avatar

Mrazek is as I have said before a pretty decent ECHL goalie..And Tatar isn’t ours headache anymore thank good.. BTW Dahlin is going to look so awesome in a Red Wings jersey… smile  smile LGRW

Posted by Gary A$$ SUCK !! from Fort Myers, Florida on 04/19/18 at 05:01 AM ET

Colin's avatar

But the draft board…this is where Kenny has flopped. And that is where it starts with this team falling apart

Posted by ilovehomers on 04/18/18 at 08:45 PM ET

The draft board is where NILL flopped. Since he left, the prospect pool has gotten MUCH better.

Posted by Colin from Ken Holland's new yacht, "Incompetence" on 04/19/18 at 01:30 PM ET

MurrayChadwick's avatar

Yep, I guess you don’t hear a lot of trades are hard resets from the cheap seats these days eh?

It is interesting to walk down that list of players, many of whom that ole’ HHHT would lament the coaches for not playing and/or getting more out off, doing more with, giving them ice time irrespective of deserving it, and they go elsewhere and get straight up benched waived shipped out of town.  The list doesn’t even include Vanek who’s ill timed defense situation change cost his team the game the other night.

Does that seed a little doubt next time we start bashing Blash of whomever is next for not playing the next guy or Holland for making room for that next guy? 

What’s really going to bake your noodle is the thought that Blash may have been able to get more out of Tatar than HOFer Gallant…

Posted by MurrayChadwick from Holland Hate Hyperbole Town (HHHT) on 04/19/18 at 08:45 PM ET

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About Abel to Yzerman

Welcome to Abel to Yzerman, a Red Wing blog since 1977.  No other site on the internet has better-researched, fact-laden and better prepared discussions than A2Y.  Re-phrase: we do little research, find facts and stats highly overrated and claim little to no preparation.  There are 19 readers of A2Y. No more, no less. All of them, except maybe one, are juvenile in nature.  Reminding them of that in the comment section will only encourage them to prove that. Your suggestions and critiques are welcome: wphoulihan@gmail.com