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Abel to Yzerman

Asleep At The Switch

All I know is this: one year ago, two years ago, three years ago?  Detroit featured three of the best five players in the world.  Some seasoning may have meant Cup #12.  Some aggression at the deadline could have landed a piece like Iginla (I said "like") and we never would have heard of, for instance, Tatar or Nyquist again.  But at least the effort would have been there.

Ken Holland holds on to the Nicastros and the Teletubbies and the Youtube sensations, the junior World Cup superstars...while Ray Shero is dealing in real talent, for real Cups.

Was Detroit even a remote destination for Jarome Iginla? Nope.  But I'll bet we kicked Feaster's tire, though...right?  One little kick? A little swipe and then move over for Ray, boy.

Tick Tock. Talent to waste, years to wave goodbye to Kenny.  Russia's calling Pavel home.

All this Iginla deal does, as far as we're concerned, is remind Wing fans of the "we like our teams" and "the cost was too steep", the "getting ______ back is like a deadline deal".  Honestly, I'm tired of hearing the bullshit alibis as to why this team can't be improved.  Shero improves his. He's aggressive every year. Every year since '08 he's been daring.  Has it always paid off? Nope.  But there he is...in the arena, while Ken Holland kicks tires.

Get us DeKeyser, Kenny.  I'm looking forward to the over-ripening stories the next four years until he gets to Detroit.

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Comments

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monkey's avatar

Teletubbies

I agree we could have traded away Teletubby for Jarome Iginla.

Posted by monkey from Finland on 03/28/13 at 08:05 AM ET

IwoCPO's avatar

I agree we could have traded away Teletubby for Jarome Iginla.

Yeah, Monkey. I’m sure that’s what I was saying.

Posted by IwoCPO from Sunny San Diego, bitches on 03/28/13 at 08:06 AM ET

redxblack's avatar

It sure is frustrating to watch incredible talent wither on the vine in Grand Rapids (I watch a lot of AHL games - talent stagnates in that league. Howard is a great example of someone who had marginal numbers until he got his shot. The Griffins are stacked with bored players.) If the DRW won’t make the moves and put these skates on the ice, and they won’t trade the future because they “like this team,” what point is there in even having a GM?

This is like playing fantasy hockey against someone who autodrafted, finishes in the middle of the pack and brags about his successes.

Posted by redxblack from Akron Ohio on 03/28/13 at 08:11 AM ET

Nathan's avatar

One thing though. All those deals from Shero… how many Cups has it netted him?

Posted by Nathan from the scoresheet! on 03/28/13 at 08:15 AM ET

Avatar

As always, the Chief is looking at the short term in explicit and joyful ignorance of the long term.  The reason Shero is (and should be) going after deadline trades now is that his Pens are in their relative prime.  The reason Holland isn’t (and should not be) going after deadline trades now is that Detroit is not in their relative prime.

Getting or not getting Iginla wouldn’t change the Wings likely outcome this year.

Yes, it’s fun to acquire a new player and then rock back and forth gleefully while one dreams of what might be.  It’s also really, really stupid to do if it doesn’t make sense… and right now it doesn’t make sense.

If Detroit’s two best players were 25 and 26 and their best dman was 25 and they had a 25 year old power forward in the making then sure… moving picks and prospects isn’t that big of a deal.  That team is young, and most importantly young in the critical positions, already.

Detroit’s best two players are 34 and a high-milage 32.  Their best dman is 32.  They don’t have a single player under the age of 30 on their roster I’d describe as a bona-fide top line/pairing player.  Given that, it is the absolute pinnacle of stupidity to suggest for even a moment that the Wings ought to move any of their legitimate prospects or future picks to goose their team in the short term.

That is reality.

Yes, it sucks that after 10-15 years of being fairly constant deadline-shoppers that Detroit is in position where they explicitly should not be, and that the league is in a state where it actively punishes those who are.

Oh well.  Welcome to a capped league and legislated parity.  Enjoy the veal.

Posted by HockeyinHD on 03/28/13 at 08:17 AM ET

Vladimir16's avatar

These Pen’s moves remind me of the ‘99 Wings when they aquired Wendel Clark, Todd Gill, Chris Chelios, Bill Ranford and Ulf Samuelsson. There was a collective groan heard around the NHL when the dust settled but when it was all said and done the Wings didn’t take the cup that year. That being said, at least they went after it and I give Shero serious props for “going after it”.

Posted by Vladimir16 from Grand River Valley on 03/28/13 at 08:18 AM ET

monkey's avatar

Yeah, Monkey. I’m sure that’s what I was saying.

Well, Chief, I think you need to take a deep breath and step back from the ledge.  I hear what you’re saying, but I think you misjudge the guy.

Posted by monkey from Finland on 03/28/13 at 08:20 AM ET

IwoCPO's avatar

f Detroit’s two best players were 25 and 26 and their best dman was 25 and they had a 25 year old power forward in the making then sure… moving picks and prospects isn’t that big of a deal.  That team is young, and most importantly young in the critical positions, already.

Yep. Which is why I pointed out that Holland’s passive tendencies have been hurting us for years, not just this Spring.

I hear what you’re saying, but I think you misjudge the guy.

And I hear you, Monkey.  My judgment is this: Ken Holland hasn’t done a damn thing to aggressively seek a Cup since he lost Hossa in ‘09. And by doing nothing, he’s let the talents of Datsyuk, Zetterberg and the last four years of Lidstrom go to waste.

Back to the pharmacist…

As always, the Chief is looking at the short term in explicit and joyful ignorance of the long term.

Yes, Richard. Give us the long view, won’t you?  What’s Holland’s grand ripening plan, eh?

 

 

Posted by IwoCPO from Sunny San Diego, bitches on 03/28/13 at 08:44 AM ET

Avatar

I’m no longer convinced that the Red Wings are a cap team anymore.  I also think Mike Ilitch is all in on the Tigers and that is his priority.  So, I think the cash is all with the Tigers.  It was also strange the way in which Detroit had to go through the back door to aquire Quincy.  Babcock is a great coach, triple crown coach, but he is very polarizing and that is his rep in the hockey world.  Also, right or wrong, I really believe that Parise flat-out refused to play for Babcock.

Posted by beelza on 03/28/13 at 08:45 AM ET

Zqto's avatar

Getting or not getting Iginla wouldn’t change the Wings likely outcome this year.

Posted by HockeyinHD on 03/28/13 at 08:17 AM ET

Well, I stopped reading right theeere…. My TROLLmometer was too loud

Posted by Zqto on 03/28/13 at 08:47 AM ET

Avatar

Kind of a moot point since Iginla provided a list of agreeable destinations and Detroit wasn’t only any of the variations of the lists that different media outlets were reporting.

Posted by Garth on 03/28/13 at 08:49 AM ET

Jeff  OKWingnut's avatar

Kind of a moot point since Iginla provided a list of agreeable destinations and Detroit wasn’t only any of the variations of the lists that different media outlets were reporting.

Garth, I don’t know if that is true or not - - assuming it is, then why the hell wasn’t DET on Iginla’s list - - could it be because DET aren’t a “serious” cup contender?

I am totally on-board with Chief’s perspective though:

“Ken Holland hasn’t done a damn thing to aggressively seek a Cup since he lost Hossa in ‘09. And by doing nothing, he’s let the talents of Datsyuk, Zetterberg and the last four years of Lidstrom go to waste.”

Spot-on - - I get the “building for the future thing” , I do.  But it isn’t everyday you have the talent to make a serious push - -and for the last several years DET has.

 

Posted by Jeff OKWingnut from Quest for 12 on 03/28/13 at 08:55 AM ET

dougie's avatar

Congrats, Chief. I have aspired to reach the pinnacle of stupidity, all full of explicit and joyful ignorance for most of my adult life. Best I can do is aboot 50/50, unless I am drinking heavily.

My hat is off to you, sir.

tongue wink

Posted by dougie on 03/28/13 at 08:56 AM ET

Avatar

could it be because DET aren’t a “serious” cup contender?

Of course they’re not.

Posted by Garth on 03/28/13 at 08:56 AM ET

Jeff  OKWingnut's avatar

And another thing,

If Da Kaiser doesn’t land in DET,  Holland should be fired, on-the-spot.

Posted by Jeff OKWingnut from Quest for 12 on 03/28/13 at 09:03 AM ET

dougie's avatar

If Da Kaiser doesn’t land in DET,  Holland should be fired, on-the-spot.

Respectfully,

BULLSH*T

Posted by dougie on 03/28/13 at 09:10 AM ET

Bent's avatar

Kind of a moot point since Iginla provided a list of agreeable destinations and Detroit wasn’t only any of the variations of the lists that different media outlets were reporting.
   
Posted by Garth on 03/28/13 at 08:49 AM ET

I could have swore when I first saw this list it included Detroit.  I can’t remember where, but it may have been on an FSD broadcast.  Am I crazy or did anyone else also see this list with Detroit on it?

Posted by Bent from The U.P. on 03/28/13 at 09:16 AM ET

Guilherme's avatar

That’s the price for Jarome Iginla. That’s what you have to do. That’s what we did.

That’s what Shero said, and that is what the Chief is talking about (not today, but for the last 3 to 4 years).

We (since I’m on Chief’s camp) are NOT talking about Iginla, Morrow, Parise or Suter. We’re talking about attitude (how many times have we listened to the lines Chief mentioned?).

Posted by Guilherme from Brazsil on 03/28/13 at 09:23 AM ET

SnLO's avatar

If Da Kaiser doesn’t land in DET,  Holland should be fired, on-the-spot.
Respectfully,
BULLSH*T
Posted by dougie on 03/28/13 at 09:10 AM ET

Agreed. The fired sentiment would only be true if Holland were to not pursue DK. Otherwise, it’s the kids choice to make where he will live the next few years. Can’t fire Holland because people choose something other than what we want; that he has no control over.

Posted by SnLO from the sub great-white north on 03/28/13 at 09:24 AM ET

topshelf14's avatar

I’m so on the fence with all of this and it kinda hurts.  On one hand Holland hasn’t done anything since acquiring Hossa. On the other hand what can he really do? Not having any top tier picks in the past 20 years has finally handcuffed the Wings.  All I can do is sit back, relax, get drunk and watch the Wings.

Posted by topshelf14 from Detroit, MI on 03/28/13 at 09:28 AM ET

Mandingo's avatar

The two prospects the Pens gave up for Iginla were their 10th and 12th rated per HF.

So that more or less translates into the Wings having had to give up a 1st rounder, Martin Frk and Teemu Pulikkinen for Iginla.

You people are out of your f*cking minds if you think that’s a good trade for the Wings. Seriously…we’re entering fever swamp territory around here.

To what end? What possible purpose would it serve to give up that much for Jarome Iginla, for a team that has NO CHANCE at making a serious Cup run with or without him?

You can argue that Holland hasn’t done enough to improve this team over the last couple of years, but this deal would’ve been literally the worst move he’s ever made in his career.

Posted by Mandingo from The Garage on 03/28/13 at 09:28 AM ET

joedaiceman's avatar

Shero is crap and I will never ever credit him for any damn move he makes to make that crappy team crappier. I hope Morrow, Ignlia and Murray crap all over that crappy ice in Pittsburgh and that Shero gets the crap beaten out of him by that crappy owner Mario.

Posted by joedaiceman on 03/28/13 at 09:32 AM ET

dougie's avatar

but this deal would’ve been literally the worst move he’s ever made in his career.

Posted by Mandingo from The Garage on 03/28/13 at 09:28 AM ET

Agreed. This situation is starting to remind me of a wrestling match, where the good guy has been double-teamed and is in deep trouble, the referee has been knocked unconscious by the manager, and everyone in the bad guys dressing room has spilled into the ring to savage the hero.

It’s getting that predictable around here lately.

Posted by dougie on 03/28/13 at 09:39 AM ET

Hootinani's avatar

Posted by Bent from The U.P. on 03/28/13 at 09:16 AM ET

I think it was Kypreos that kept insisting that Detroit was on it, but every other talking head said that wasn’t the case.

And as far as Holland goes, to me its not the fact that he didnt get Iginla, Murray, Morrow etc etc, its the fact that he has targeted players over the past few years, either in trades or in free agency, that he wanted to aquire, and has not been able to, for whatever reason.

On the other hand, Shero gets the job done, simple as that.  He identifies an asset he wants to aquire, makes the necessary sacrificies, and bam, the Pens have an asset they think will better their team.  Is it always the right move?  Presumably not, since they haven’t been racking up the Cups, but its still the move that he wanted to get done.

In short, I really don’t care what move Holland makes, as long as he honestly thinks it will make the team better.  I’ll futiliy cheer or bitch along with the rest of you when it happens.  But for Lord Stanley’s sake, Kenny, stop making excuses for not getting the players you want, and just get the damn job done.

Posted by Hootinani on 03/28/13 at 09:43 AM ET

MOWingsfan19's avatar

Iginla a couple of years ago would have been worth it. In 2013, not so much… definately not for Detroit and where the team/roster is at.

Posted by MOWingsfan19 from I really like our team on 03/28/13 at 09:46 AM ET

Mandingo's avatar

And as far as Holland goes, to me its not the fact that he didnt get Iginla, Murray, Morrow etc etc, its the fact that he has targeted players over the past few years, either in trades or in free agency, that he wanted to aquire, and has not been able to, for whatever reason.

Posted by Hootinani on 03/28/13 at 09:43 AM ET

My biggest fear doesn’t have anything to do with Holland. My biggest fear is that it’s because players don’t want to live and play in Metro Detroit anymore. That the team isn’t good enough anymore to make up for the fact that it’s - let’s face it - an ugly, depressing, dystopian hellscape.

OK…maybe that’s a little harsh. I think this endless winter is really starting to get to me.

Posted by Mandingo from The Garage on 03/28/13 at 09:53 AM ET

PaulinMiamiBeach's avatar

it seems to me that people are thinking it’s the 2008 Iginla we’d be getting.  but it’s not.  no way Iginla puts us “over the top” so what’s the point?

Posted by PaulinMiamiBeach on 03/28/13 at 09:57 AM ET

Vladimir16's avatar

And as far as Holland goes, to me its not the fact that he didnt get Iginla, Murray, Morrow etc etc, its the fact that he has targeted players over the past few years, either in trades or in free agency, that he wanted to aquire, and has not been able to, for whatever reason.

Posted by Hootinani on 03/28/13 at 09:43 AM ET

My issue with Holland is the guys he doesn’t go after (Souray, Semin for 1 yr fer cripes sake) when we have moneys left over, the trades he doesn’t make (White, Filpulla) and we lose guys for nothing and, finally, the guys he ends up getting (Samuelsson, Colawhateverhisnameis). Ooofff…. not very impressive

Posted by Vladimir16 from Grand River Valley on 03/28/13 at 09:59 AM ET

redxblack's avatar

I can’t remember who said it last week, but it bears repeating. Holland hasn’t done much of anything since Scotty Bowman packed his office and moved to Chicago. It makes me wonder how much Holland did with Bowman’s guidance since he hasn’t done much since the training wheels came off.

Posted by redxblack from Akron Ohio on 03/28/13 at 10:00 AM ET

Guilherme's avatar

Can’t fire Holland because people choose something other than what we want; that he has no control over.

Of course he shouldn’t be fire if Kaiser (Kaiser Chief?) doesn’t sign, but Holland DID have control over offering Semin or Carle or Redden a spot on the team. He didn’t. If one day Holland is let go off the team, it’d be for a collection of errors, not a minor one.

(DONT FIRE HIM)

You people are out of your f*cking minds if you think that’s a good trade for the Wings. Seriously…we’re entering fever swamp territory around here.

It’s not Iginla, it’s inertia.

definately not for Detroit and where the team/roster is at.

And why is the roster like that?

Posted by Guilherme from Brazsil on 03/28/13 at 10:04 AM ET

Avatar

The big problem with trades is everyone wants Nyquist or mrazek or Sproul if all the rumors are true. Teams across the league hate the Wings because they haven’t sucked in 30 years, nearly. So they want all they can get. I understand why management doesn’t want to give up a top 5 prospect for a rental. However.

It’s getting to the point they are going to have to to win anything. I just don’t think it’s worth it this year. Unless they find a way to turn 2 first line forward prospects into a truly elite forward, in his 20’s or early 30’s, who wants to stay in Detroit.

Posted by teldar on 03/28/13 at 10:09 AM ET

Avatar

On the other hand what can he really do?

I don’t know, be a GM?

What incredible amazing stupendous picks and prospects did Shero give up to get Morror, Murray and f*cking Iginla?  Detroit wouldn’t be willing to part with mid-level prospects and draft picks to make his team better?

Posted by Garth on 03/28/13 at 10:09 AM ET

Avatar

That the team isn’t good enough anymore to make up for the fact that it’s - let’s face it - an ugly, depressing, dystopian hellscape.

Well guess what?  If people don’t want to live in Detroit and the team isn’t good enough to make up for that then the only way to make the team better is through trades.  You make trades, build the team up to be attractive enough to entice free agents and then the problem is solved.

But if you can’t attract free agents and don’t want to trade to make the team better, then welcome to Long Island.

It’s not Iginla, it’s inertia.

Exactly.

If Holland had done something…anything…to better his team over the last four years then maybe picking up Morrow or Murray or Iginla WOULD make them a true cotender.

Posted by Garth on 03/28/13 at 10:14 AM ET

MOWingsfan19's avatar

And why is the roster like that?
Posted by Guilherme from Brazsil on 03/28/13 at 10:04 AM ET

I fully understand the dynamics (or lack there of) that have the roster where it’s at.  Simply pointing out adding Iginla in 2013 would be a waste.

Posted by MOWingsfan19 from I really like our team on 03/28/13 at 10:16 AM ET

henrymalredo's avatar

I would like to see changes to the way things are done by the Wings (Give prospects legitimate shots to make the team, draft more blue chippers instead of projects, and get back to targeting value players to fill support roles aka Cleary and Samuellson on their original deals), but the fact is, the Cap has finally caught up to the Wings.  We can’t out bid teams anymore, lesser teams can afford to keep their stars instead of dealing them for junk just to save money,  there are more teams that are in “the hunt” and won’t sell, and the Wings don’t have enough blue-chip, NHL ready prospects to deal for stars without hurting organizational depth.

Posted by henrymalredo from Lansing on 03/28/13 at 10:17 AM ET

IwoCPO's avatar

If Holland had done something…anything…to better his team over the last four years then maybe picking up Morrow or Murray or Iginla WOULD make them a true cotender.

Exactly my point, although it may have been obscured by my irritation.  He’s done nothing.  I mean, I know every year can’t be a Cory Cross situation, but…fuch it, man.  The Holland defenders are blind.

Posted by IwoCPO from Sunny San Diego, bitches on 03/28/13 at 10:18 AM ET

redxblack's avatar

It’s not Iginla, it’s inertia.

This could be the headline of the season, or the title of a biography about how Ken Holland squandered opportunities because he likes his team so much.

Posted by redxblack from Akron Ohio on 03/28/13 at 10:23 AM ET

Avatar

the Cap has finally caught up to the Wings.

More than that, it appears that the cap may have exposed Ken Holland.

Posted by Garth on 03/28/13 at 10:30 AM ET

redxblack's avatar

Is it just me, or does it seem like DRW considers it a win when they make it to the playoffs? It seems like getting into the bubble means more to Holland than how they do inside the bubble. As long as the streak continues, Mr. Hesitant looks to be patting himself on the back for a job well done.

Posted by redxblack from Akron Ohio on 03/28/13 at 10:31 AM ET

MoreShoot's avatar

Posted by henrymalredo from Lansing on 03/28/13 at 10:17 AM ET

Is Nill the man to do that?

Posted by MoreShoot on 03/28/13 at 10:33 AM ET

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About Abel to Yzerman

Welcome to Abel to Yzerman, a Red Wing blog since 1977.  No other site on the internet has better-researched, fact-laden and better prepared discussions than A2Y.  Re-phrase: we do little research, find facts and stats highly overrated and claim little to no preparation.  There are 19 readers of A2Y. No more, no less. All of them, except maybe one, are juvenile in nature.  Reminding them of that in the comment section will only encourage them to prove that. Your suggestions and critiques are welcome: wphoulihan@gmail.com